Posted on May 10, 2017
5 Things To Know About The Army’s Plan To Pick A New Rifle
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They have only been using the basic platform since Vietnam, so maybe Out of Date is an understatement. Though Out of Date does not mean that it should automatically be replaced. The A-10 could be considered out of date, but it is also the best CAS aircraft in the U.S. Arsenal.
As for Caliber, I have watched a few videos lately comparing the 5.56 to the 7.62, and my take away is that you don't want to be on the receiving end of either. It will be interesting to see what the 6.5 proves in testing. As for the reduced weight polymer round, if it weighs the same as the 5.56 I would like to see if it ends up with similar ballistics to the 5.56, in which case it becomes a lateral move as opposed to an upgrade. Interesting times ahead. As a gun lover, it makes me happy.
As for Caliber, I have watched a few videos lately comparing the 5.56 to the 7.62, and my take away is that you don't want to be on the receiving end of either. It will be interesting to see what the 6.5 proves in testing. As for the reduced weight polymer round, if it weighs the same as the 5.56 I would like to see if it ends up with similar ballistics to the 5.56, in which case it becomes a lateral move as opposed to an upgrade. Interesting times ahead. As a gun lover, it makes me happy.
5 Things To Know About The Army’s Plan To Pick A New Rifle
Posted from taskandpurpose.comPosted in these groups: 
Firearms and Guns
Firearms and Guns
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 6
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If it takes as long to figure this one out as it does everything else then Soldiers in BCT right now might see the new rifle prior to their retirement...if the whole project does not go over budget and get scrapped first.
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A couple things I saw that were incorrect. Some were quotes from people that should know what they are talking about and some is from the author.
1) The M-4 platform is not outdated. There is not another country in the world that fields a superior weapons platform (With the exception of the HK G-36 wihich uses a short stroke gas piston system and it is only marginally better). Retired Maj. Gen. Robert Scales seems not to know shit about body armor. I saw a guy on a YouTube video take a 7.62x54 round to his chest plate. It knocked him down and then he got back up. There is not a mid caliber assault rifle round made that will penetrate a level 4 SAPI plate. There is nothing in the works for a super bullet. So unless we are going to start fielding M2 for QCB to defeat body armor that is an unrealistic benchmark. Gen. Scales goes on to say, “A Russian infantryman can fire about 140 rounds a minute without stopping. The M4 fires at roughly half that rate.” Ever shot 140 rounds out of an AK? You can't hold the gun because it is so freaking hot it will melt the flesh on you fingers together. Sure it fires. It has 3 things going for it. The shape of the round. It is tapered so once the ejection cycle starts there is zero friction. It also makes the rifle have those huge banana clips that are a pain in the ass to swap mags because it can not have a mag well due to the curvature. Next is the tolerances for the weapon are measured in .01" not .001" like the M-4. They shoot, but most have a spread of 12 inches or more. Have a expert Marine rifleman go to the 500 meter range and see if you can get him to qualify. Impossible not only because of accuracy issues, but ballistics (See below). Last, they are long stroke piston driven. It is the absolutely the best operating system for a automatic rifle system, other than after 50 rounds they get so hot you can't hold them. The AK is not all that and should not be the benchmark for the standard of other rifles. It ain't all that.
2) The .260 Remington and 6.5 Creedmoor are all full size sniper rounds. The 264. USA is a intermediate round as is the 6.5 Grendel. Both are superior to the 5.56 and the 7.62x39 and that would be a good thing to change.
3) The AK does not shoot further than the M-4. The 7.62 takes a dump at 250 yards and bleeds off much faster than the much more ballisticly efficient 5.56. At 450 yards the 7.62x39 is useless. The 5.56 is still lethal at 600 yards. I won't even mention a comparison of the sights of these 2 rifles.
4) Polymer ammo is not unique to any new riffle. It works just as well in a M-4 as anything they will come up with in the future. It is still not reliable and has made little progress in actually being real world usable in the last 6 years since it was introduced.
5) Remember how long we have been replacing the M-9? Don't count on 2020.
Nothing really new has been introduced to assault rifles in the last 40 years. They still have to fire, eject, load, and fire. Until that changes we are just dressing up a pig. The M-4 will be around for a long time to come. This is the Army version of the F-35. It looks good on paper and is a waste of money. Generals will always want new flashy stuff. Even when the old stuff works just fine.
1) The M-4 platform is not outdated. There is not another country in the world that fields a superior weapons platform (With the exception of the HK G-36 wihich uses a short stroke gas piston system and it is only marginally better). Retired Maj. Gen. Robert Scales seems not to know shit about body armor. I saw a guy on a YouTube video take a 7.62x54 round to his chest plate. It knocked him down and then he got back up. There is not a mid caliber assault rifle round made that will penetrate a level 4 SAPI plate. There is nothing in the works for a super bullet. So unless we are going to start fielding M2 for QCB to defeat body armor that is an unrealistic benchmark. Gen. Scales goes on to say, “A Russian infantryman can fire about 140 rounds a minute without stopping. The M4 fires at roughly half that rate.” Ever shot 140 rounds out of an AK? You can't hold the gun because it is so freaking hot it will melt the flesh on you fingers together. Sure it fires. It has 3 things going for it. The shape of the round. It is tapered so once the ejection cycle starts there is zero friction. It also makes the rifle have those huge banana clips that are a pain in the ass to swap mags because it can not have a mag well due to the curvature. Next is the tolerances for the weapon are measured in .01" not .001" like the M-4. They shoot, but most have a spread of 12 inches or more. Have a expert Marine rifleman go to the 500 meter range and see if you can get him to qualify. Impossible not only because of accuracy issues, but ballistics (See below). Last, they are long stroke piston driven. It is the absolutely the best operating system for a automatic rifle system, other than after 50 rounds they get so hot you can't hold them. The AK is not all that and should not be the benchmark for the standard of other rifles. It ain't all that.
2) The .260 Remington and 6.5 Creedmoor are all full size sniper rounds. The 264. USA is a intermediate round as is the 6.5 Grendel. Both are superior to the 5.56 and the 7.62x39 and that would be a good thing to change.
3) The AK does not shoot further than the M-4. The 7.62 takes a dump at 250 yards and bleeds off much faster than the much more ballisticly efficient 5.56. At 450 yards the 7.62x39 is useless. The 5.56 is still lethal at 600 yards. I won't even mention a comparison of the sights of these 2 rifles.
4) Polymer ammo is not unique to any new riffle. It works just as well in a M-4 as anything they will come up with in the future. It is still not reliable and has made little progress in actually being real world usable in the last 6 years since it was introduced.
5) Remember how long we have been replacing the M-9? Don't count on 2020.
Nothing really new has been introduced to assault rifles in the last 40 years. They still have to fire, eject, load, and fire. Until that changes we are just dressing up a pig. The M-4 will be around for a long time to come. This is the Army version of the F-35. It looks good on paper and is a waste of money. Generals will always want new flashy stuff. Even when the old stuff works just fine.
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PO3 Steven Sherrill
SGT William Howell Being I have zero experience with the M-16 or M-4 I was hoping someone such as yourself would take the time to write a response to this. Thank you for doing so. Gave me some good insights.
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SGM Steve Wettstein
SGT William Howell Agree with you on the M4 not being outdated. If it was, why would other countries be using it? All they need to do is keep doing some upgrades on it when needed. What are your thoughts on the 300 Blackout?
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SGT William Howell
SGM Steve Wettstein - It was the cartridge that was "going to do it all". I like it and have a 300BLK and literally cases of ammo in the basement. The problem is "it is the cartridge that does it all". Guys run it in suppressed guns so they cranked up the bullet weight and cranked down on the powder to get it subsonic. It works great if you have 8 inch can on the end of the muzzle to keep up the back pressure to work the bolt, but take the can off and the gun is a single shot. The problem is when they do that it is ballisticly a really hot .45. At 150 yards the round has nothing left. If you crank up the powder and lower the bullet weight the gun works great, but you have to use a pistol or carbine length gas system. Which is how mine is set up. It is accurate out to 400 yards. There is no standard SAMMI specs for the 300BLK and when you buy ammo it is a total crap shoot if the gun will cycle because each cartridge manufacturer cooks up what they think the buyer wants. If you hand load you can tweak it for you gun and get everything promised from the round.
You use the same bolt for 5.56 and 300BLK. What scares the hell out of me that you can stuff a .30 bullet in a 5.56 and it will fire....once. It can lead to a S.E.E. a Significant Emotional Event. My Blackout is marked with a paint pen all over it and I have mags that are painted a different color and only 300BLK goes in those so there is no screw ups. I only shoot one caliber when I go to the range and don't allow any ammo for the other upper anywhere near me.
I like the round and I would recommend it as long as you are comfortable in either reloading or changing out barrels to tweak the gun for you. It is not a cartridge for plug and play. I am thinking about selling mine off for a 6.5 Grendel. Right now that is the cats meow as far as power, distance, and ballistic coefficients. It makes an AR a 600 meter sniper rifle.
You use the same bolt for 5.56 and 300BLK. What scares the hell out of me that you can stuff a .30 bullet in a 5.56 and it will fire....once. It can lead to a S.E.E. a Significant Emotional Event. My Blackout is marked with a paint pen all over it and I have mags that are painted a different color and only 300BLK goes in those so there is no screw ups. I only shoot one caliber when I go to the range and don't allow any ammo for the other upper anywhere near me.
I like the round and I would recommend it as long as you are comfortable in either reloading or changing out barrels to tweak the gun for you. It is not a cartridge for plug and play. I am thinking about selling mine off for a 6.5 Grendel. Right now that is the cats meow as far as power, distance, and ballistic coefficients. It makes an AR a 600 meter sniper rifle.
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SPC Colin Jenks
My AR is chambered for 556 with iron sights. Basically set up like an A2. I can shoot accurately over longer distances. My wifes AR is 7.62x39. She has a red dot, but is more of a close up shooter and is pretty useless over 150 yards. We wanted the two most popular calibers in the world. Thats also why I pretty much only buy 9mm handguns at this point. Yea I have my 1911, and my wife has her 38 and 380, but 9mm is the most popular pistol caliber in the world. If the army ever does switch to 6.8 it will suddenly become extremely popular I imagine.
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If they change the caliber, Big Army should do it in a way that all that they would need to replace would be the upper receiver. Doing that would save millions of dollars. But then again...why save money? That shit grows on trees. On a side note, WTF did they upgrade all the M4s for if they are planning on changing?
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SSG Tom Pike
That would be easy to do. A .257", 6.5mm or 7mm bullet in a 5.56 sized case is very easy to do and available on the civilian market right now. I have a custom upper for my AR15 I use for deer hunting here in Virginia that uses a standard 5.56 mm case necked up to .257 (.25 cal) to get around our minimum .23 caliber law. Sharps Rifle Company now makes it as the .25-45 Sharps. I can push a 85 gr bullet to 2700 fps out of a 16" barrel. Drops deer and feral hogs very well. There are similar wildcats in the 6.5 and 7mm size.
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SGT William Howell
SSG Tom Pike - The 6.5 Grendel is as good a round as you can get for the AR platform. It rocks in every category as long as you don't have to buy them. It is not cheap. The only issue is the bolt face gets a little thin with the bigger cartridge and the wear out and crack much faster..
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