Posted on May 20, 2019
a-new-grittier-spy-museum-lets-dc-visitors-explore-waterboarding-and-enhanced-interrogation
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https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/a-new-grittier-spy-museum-lets-dc-visitors-explore-waterboarding-and-enhanced-interrogation
MY COMMENT:
Enhanced Interrogation Techniques, or EIT, were approved and LEGAL when performed on a "handful" of unlawful combatant detainees being held at the US military detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in the early 2000's. None of these methods were administered by any DoD personnel. Only the CIA were trained and authorized to perform these lawful procedures.
At the time, the internationally accepted definition of torture did not cover these techniques, nor were any of the techniques defined as torture at the time they were used. Only AFTER the program had ended did President Barack Obama unilaterally declare them torture, still without a definition of torture that included the techniques.
I'm wondering how clear the display is that no detainees were tortured at Gitmo, nor by any DoD personnel, including the Army Military Police jailers, who with very few exceptions, treated every detainee with dignity and respect and within the limits of the spirit of the Geneva Conventions, even though these unlawful combatants were not legally entitled to the protections of Geneva.
I'm wondering if the display makes clear that the detainees could have been lawfully shot dead on the battlefield? I'm wondering if the display mentions that the detainees were (and still are) given FREE Qurans, prayer rugs/beads, directions to Mecca, white robes, halal and special holy Muslim holiday meals, world class health, dental and vision care, recreation, Library, DVD's, TV, video games and sports?
I'm wondering if the display mentions that 732 detainees have been RELEASED, with a recidivism rate of 30%, and NONE of the detainees held at Gitmo were ever executed, beheaded, blown up, hacked to death, dragged naked and lifeless through the streets, drowned or burned alive, all things our enemies have done to us and/or our allies?
Probably not.
While I served at Gitmo in early to mid 2002, International Committee of the Red Cross physicians I worked with there told me, "No one does [detention operations] better than the US." Indeed. I wonder if they would put that in the display?
Sincerely, MAJ (RET) Montgomery J. Granger, former ranking US Army Medical Department officer with the Joint Detainee Operations Group, Joint Task Force 160, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Author: "Saving Grace at Guantanamo Bay: A Memoir of a Citizen Warrior."
MY COMMENT:
Enhanced Interrogation Techniques, or EIT, were approved and LEGAL when performed on a "handful" of unlawful combatant detainees being held at the US military detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in the early 2000's. None of these methods were administered by any DoD personnel. Only the CIA were trained and authorized to perform these lawful procedures.
At the time, the internationally accepted definition of torture did not cover these techniques, nor were any of the techniques defined as torture at the time they were used. Only AFTER the program had ended did President Barack Obama unilaterally declare them torture, still without a definition of torture that included the techniques.
I'm wondering how clear the display is that no detainees were tortured at Gitmo, nor by any DoD personnel, including the Army Military Police jailers, who with very few exceptions, treated every detainee with dignity and respect and within the limits of the spirit of the Geneva Conventions, even though these unlawful combatants were not legally entitled to the protections of Geneva.
I'm wondering if the display makes clear that the detainees could have been lawfully shot dead on the battlefield? I'm wondering if the display mentions that the detainees were (and still are) given FREE Qurans, prayer rugs/beads, directions to Mecca, white robes, halal and special holy Muslim holiday meals, world class health, dental and vision care, recreation, Library, DVD's, TV, video games and sports?
I'm wondering if the display mentions that 732 detainees have been RELEASED, with a recidivism rate of 30%, and NONE of the detainees held at Gitmo were ever executed, beheaded, blown up, hacked to death, dragged naked and lifeless through the streets, drowned or burned alive, all things our enemies have done to us and/or our allies?
Probably not.
While I served at Gitmo in early to mid 2002, International Committee of the Red Cross physicians I worked with there told me, "No one does [detention operations] better than the US." Indeed. I wonder if they would put that in the display?
Sincerely, MAJ (RET) Montgomery J. Granger, former ranking US Army Medical Department officer with the Joint Detainee Operations Group, Joint Task Force 160, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Author: "Saving Grace at Guantanamo Bay: A Memoir of a Citizen Warrior."
Guantanamo Bay
Torture
Law
Edited 5 y ago
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 3
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I haven't been to the museum but I suspect that thy don't cover it in the detail that you did. They have another agenda.
COL Mikel J. Burroughs Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. CMSgt (Join to see) SP5 Mark Kuzinski SPC Mark Huddleston CPL Dave Hoover TSgt David L. MSgt David Hoffman SGT (Join to see) LTC David Brown LTC (Join to see) LTC Stephan Porter LTC Stephen C. CPT Jack Durish TSgt Joe C.
COL Mikel J. Burroughs Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. CMSgt (Join to see) SP5 Mark Kuzinski SPC Mark Huddleston CPL Dave Hoover TSgt David L. MSgt David Hoffman SGT (Join to see) LTC David Brown LTC (Join to see) LTC Stephan Porter LTC Stephen C. CPT Jack Durish TSgt Joe C.
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What complete bullshit.
"Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" included "beating, binding in contorted stress positions, hooding, subjection to deafening noise, sleep disruption, sleep deprivation to the point of hallucination, deprivation of food, drink, and withholding medical care for wounds, as well as waterboarding, walling, sexual humiliation, subjection to extreme heat or extreme cold, and confinement in small coffin-like boxes."
Since when was beating not included in "torture"? And if it wasn't torture, then why did the CIA destroy the videotapes due to them being "devastating to the CIA" and the potential for criminal charges being filed against the interrogators.
It is also interesting that the CIA IG stated that "The EITs ... are inconsistent with the public policy positions that the US has taken regarding human rights..." Ruth Blakeley, "Dirty Hands, Clean Conscience? The CIA Inspector General’s Investigation of 'Enhanced Interrogation Techniques' in the War on Terror and the Torture Debate", 10 J. of Hum. Rights 544, 550 (2011).
"Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" included "beating, binding in contorted stress positions, hooding, subjection to deafening noise, sleep disruption, sleep deprivation to the point of hallucination, deprivation of food, drink, and withholding medical care for wounds, as well as waterboarding, walling, sexual humiliation, subjection to extreme heat or extreme cold, and confinement in small coffin-like boxes."
Since when was beating not included in "torture"? And if it wasn't torture, then why did the CIA destroy the videotapes due to them being "devastating to the CIA" and the potential for criminal charges being filed against the interrogators.
It is also interesting that the CIA IG stated that "The EITs ... are inconsistent with the public policy positions that the US has taken regarding human rights..." Ruth Blakeley, "Dirty Hands, Clean Conscience? The CIA Inspector General’s Investigation of 'Enhanced Interrogation Techniques' in the War on Terror and the Torture Debate", 10 J. of Hum. Rights 544, 550 (2011).
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MAJ Montgomery Granger
"Public policy guidelines," along with wishful thinking, are not the law, counselor. You know this. I will NEVER apologize for the CIA. I don't like secret squirrels, I don't trust secret squirrels, but I understand their role. They are the tip of the spear. They are the ones who embed themselves in danger and sacrifice themselves for US. According to George W. Bush's memoir, "Decision Points," a "handful" of detainees were waterboarded, which resulted in obtaining valuable information which "saved many lives." Love him or hate him, I have no reason to believe this was a lie. We are a nation of laws, not men. Those who wish to view the events of 9/11 and the few subsequent years afterwards through the softened, liberal lens of 2019 obviously do not appreciate the times which they loathe.
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Capt Gregory Prickett
MAJ Montgomery Granger - the law at the time prohibited torture, and what was done was torture. It doesn't matter that you assert that they were legal, they were not, and a memo from a government lawyer is not the law. You may want to read the Senate Intelligence Committee's report, released to the public in 2014. It states that the torture conducted by the CIA was ineffective in obtaining valuable information, and that the CIA regularly lied about that fact.
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MAJ Montgomery Granger
2014? Oh, yes, and overseen then by whom? Someone from the Obama Administration, no doubt. You carefully avoid talking about the internationally accepted definition of torture at the time of EIT use. EIT were by definition NOT torture at the time, whether you like it or a bogus commission says so or not. And by refusing to refute with any evidence George W. Bush's memoir, you are either calling the former president a liar or you are ignoring a first person fact.
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Capt Gregory Prickett
MAJ Montgomery Granger - it absolutely was torture at the time, and was recognized as torture at the time. I haven't seen where Bush II said that it was not torture, but if he did, he's wrong. The 1985 UN treaty on torture clearly spells out what is and is not torture, and all of the EIT fit within the definition of torture.
"1. For the purposes of this Convention, the term"torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity, it does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions."
Waterboarding clearly fits within that definition.
The United States is a signatory to that treaty.
"1. For the purposes of this Convention, the term"torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity, it does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions."
Waterboarding clearly fits within that definition.
The United States is a signatory to that treaty.
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