Posted on Oct 5, 2017
Army Considers Adding Drill Sergeants to AIT to Bolster Discipline
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Why did we take Drill Sergeants out of AIT in the first place? Also maybe, just maybe we could allow NCO's the freedom to adjust attitudes or lack of discipline like we use to.
Army Considers Adding Drill Sergeants to AIT to Bolster Discipline
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Drill Sergeant
Drill Sergeant
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 12
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Adding Drill Sergeants to AIT will not fix any discipline problems unless the higher ups will allow them to be a Drill Sergeant!! I am a former Drill Sergeant and I can say from experience it's the higher ups. Battalion leadership or higher. How many soldiers here got chow and had to do facing movements or sidestep? Learn to eat your chow and not talk to your buddies or watch the TV? It's not like that anymore. DS are told that we have enough time in the day to work on D&C and to let the soldiers unwind. SM'S get to call home every week with their personal cell phones. This was all on FT Benning. DS are just babysitting and trying to keep their careers! Let NCO's be an NCO and that will solve a lot of discipline issues
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CSM Eric Biggs
SSG (Join to see) I couldn't agree more. This was my experience as a Drill Sergeant as well. Leadership needed to get out of the way and let NCO's be NCO's.
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Follow the money.
Creating qualified Drill Sergeants is a time consuming and expensive situation. Drill Sergeant applicants have to meet higher GT score requirements than most MOS, there are other required background and other assessments that are far above those required for the force overall. Then they have to compete Drill Sergeant School.
After graduation they receive Special Performance Pay. Not to mention the fact that there is ALWAYS a shortage of Drill Sergeants, especially female Drill Sergeants. So if you could save them for BCT and OSUT training, that benefits to Army considerably.
When the platoon sergeant concept was first rolled out there was very little additional training required or other benefits for the NCOs that were replacing the Drill Sergeants. After all weren’t they just doing the job that was a logical progression of what they should be doing as Soldiers? An NCO with the required MOS, good to go.
From a logic process, if the AIT Soldiers were introduced to an atmosphere that duplicated the normal Army platoon system, the Soldiers would be better acclimated to life as it will exist in their first duty station of assignment. That they would come in as independent stand alone Soldiers and not extensions of recent garaduation of BCTs. If you treated them with respect, as adults, they would become better Soldiers.
Apparently that experiment is failing. The first line units have always complained about the level of performance and discipline of AIT graduates they received but it seems this platoon sergeant program has just exasperated that opinion.
Thus the desire to return to the old system.
Creating qualified Drill Sergeants is a time consuming and expensive situation. Drill Sergeant applicants have to meet higher GT score requirements than most MOS, there are other required background and other assessments that are far above those required for the force overall. Then they have to compete Drill Sergeant School.
After graduation they receive Special Performance Pay. Not to mention the fact that there is ALWAYS a shortage of Drill Sergeants, especially female Drill Sergeants. So if you could save them for BCT and OSUT training, that benefits to Army considerably.
When the platoon sergeant concept was first rolled out there was very little additional training required or other benefits for the NCOs that were replacing the Drill Sergeants. After all weren’t they just doing the job that was a logical progression of what they should be doing as Soldiers? An NCO with the required MOS, good to go.
From a logic process, if the AIT Soldiers were introduced to an atmosphere that duplicated the normal Army platoon system, the Soldiers would be better acclimated to life as it will exist in their first duty station of assignment. That they would come in as independent stand alone Soldiers and not extensions of recent garaduation of BCTs. If you treated them with respect, as adults, they would become better Soldiers.
Apparently that experiment is failing. The first line units have always complained about the level of performance and discipline of AIT graduates they received but it seems this platoon sergeant program has just exasperated that opinion.
Thus the desire to return to the old system.
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CSM Eric Biggs
CSM, I totally agree with your follow the money statement but at the same time there were other factors working as well. The cost savings just made it a quick easy decision.
I was a USAR Drill Sergeant when this concept first came out. Take it for what it's worth, but I heard through the grape vine at the time the following story:
PVT Snuffy graduates Basic and AIT, (maybe it was OSUT but I doubt it). He arrives at his first duty station and meets his Squad Leader. The SSG tells PVT Snuffy to do something and the response is something to the effect of; Your not a Drill Sergeant i don't have to do that.
I never heard the end of that conversation, but the Army in it's wisdom decided to not simply allow NCO's to unscrew PVT Snuffy's head and shit down his neck. Instead they decided the problem was new Soldiers needed to get use to following instructions from NCO's who did not have a Campaign Hat. Then they would learn to follow instructions from someone wearing stripes, not just the "HAT".
The problem is what we have all seen in our formations in the last 10 years or so, undisciplined Soldiers who don't do what they are told, who argue, or want an explanation and or bitch and complain. I don't know if putting Drill Sergeants back in AIT is the right or wrong answer, but I do know it will not solve this problem. Drill Sergeants hands are tied so much currently it is ridiculous.
I am currently the 1SG for an Army Reserve Drill Sergeant Company. My Drill Sergeants and I when to FT Leonard Wood this summer for 17 days of work at a BCT BN. My Drill Sergeants were told by the BN Commander, just as he had told his Active Duty Drill Sergeants, "if you have the Privates doing push ups, you will be down with them." This is way to far the wrong way. You have a very hard time conducting "corrective training" when you are receiving the same corrective training you are attempting to provide. The "kid gloves" need to come off and Senior leadership needs to get out of the NCO's way and allow them to do their jobs. NCO's need to be given the authority back to make whatever corrections they deem necessary at the time for the given offense. NCO's also need to be backed up by their chain of command all the way to the top. Unless the NCO does something immoral or unethical, at that point that NCO and only that NCO needs to receive the full blunt force trauma the UCMJ allows and kick him/her out of the Service.
I was a USAR Drill Sergeant when this concept first came out. Take it for what it's worth, but I heard through the grape vine at the time the following story:
PVT Snuffy graduates Basic and AIT, (maybe it was OSUT but I doubt it). He arrives at his first duty station and meets his Squad Leader. The SSG tells PVT Snuffy to do something and the response is something to the effect of; Your not a Drill Sergeant i don't have to do that.
I never heard the end of that conversation, but the Army in it's wisdom decided to not simply allow NCO's to unscrew PVT Snuffy's head and shit down his neck. Instead they decided the problem was new Soldiers needed to get use to following instructions from NCO's who did not have a Campaign Hat. Then they would learn to follow instructions from someone wearing stripes, not just the "HAT".
The problem is what we have all seen in our formations in the last 10 years or so, undisciplined Soldiers who don't do what they are told, who argue, or want an explanation and or bitch and complain. I don't know if putting Drill Sergeants back in AIT is the right or wrong answer, but I do know it will not solve this problem. Drill Sergeants hands are tied so much currently it is ridiculous.
I am currently the 1SG for an Army Reserve Drill Sergeant Company. My Drill Sergeants and I when to FT Leonard Wood this summer for 17 days of work at a BCT BN. My Drill Sergeants were told by the BN Commander, just as he had told his Active Duty Drill Sergeants, "if you have the Privates doing push ups, you will be down with them." This is way to far the wrong way. You have a very hard time conducting "corrective training" when you are receiving the same corrective training you are attempting to provide. The "kid gloves" need to come off and Senior leadership needs to get out of the NCO's way and allow them to do their jobs. NCO's need to be given the authority back to make whatever corrections they deem necessary at the time for the given offense. NCO's also need to be backed up by their chain of command all the way to the top. Unless the NCO does something immoral or unethical, at that point that NCO and only that NCO needs to receive the full blunt force trauma the UCMJ allows and kick him/her out of the Service.
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CSM William Payne
Roger that Top, I agree with you 100%. The raw material you have to deal with today is a challenge for whomever is doing the training.
Just look at this malcontent that just recently graduated from West Point that was removed from the 75th Ranger Regiment for failure to live up to their standards.
Instructures at West Point are beyond incredulous that he was allowed to graduate.
Then there was Manning, a complete and total failure of the system on my opinion.
You definitely have a challenge on your hands.
Was I your CSM at one time?
Just look at this malcontent that just recently graduated from West Point that was removed from the 75th Ranger Regiment for failure to live up to their standards.
Instructures at West Point are beyond incredulous that he was allowed to graduate.
Then there was Manning, a complete and total failure of the system on my opinion.
You definitely have a challenge on your hands.
Was I your CSM at one time?
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CSM Eric Biggs
True stories CSM, I believe the preverbal hammer needs to be dropped from on high, I.E. DOD, and call a spade a spade and stop using my beloved military as a social experiment. Everyone from the top down needs to be held accountable for their actions.
Yes you were my CSM between 2005 and 2012, when you were the 108th CSM, I was a Drill Sergeant in B. Co 2/414th 2/95th DIV in Boise, ID. Unfortunately never got to meet you, but glad to see you on RP.
Yes you were my CSM between 2005 and 2012, when you were the 108th CSM, I was a Drill Sergeant in B. Co 2/414th 2/95th DIV in Boise, ID. Unfortunately never got to meet you, but glad to see you on RP.
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CSM William Payne
Sorry we didn’t get a chance to meet. That was a challenging time for a part time CSM. Idaho was the ONE state in our command I never made it to. Not a large concentration of units there.
I rolled up a lot of frequent flyer miles between the 98th, first in Rochester, NY, then to Fort Benning, the 95th from OK City to Fort Sill and the 104th from Vancouver Barracks to JB Lewis-McChord. Then visiting the BCT bases of then Fort Jackson, Benning, Knox, Leonard Wood and Sill.
A lot of red-eyes to be back at work on Monday mornings, a challenge but worth every trip to be with the Soldiers.
I only made it to Training Command Headquarters here in Charlotte once a quarter.
Congratulations on making First Sergeant, one of the most rewarding and challenging positions I held during my career.
Thank you for your service, good luck for the rest of your career. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.
I rolled up a lot of frequent flyer miles between the 98th, first in Rochester, NY, then to Fort Benning, the 95th from OK City to Fort Sill and the 104th from Vancouver Barracks to JB Lewis-McChord. Then visiting the BCT bases of then Fort Jackson, Benning, Knox, Leonard Wood and Sill.
A lot of red-eyes to be back at work on Monday mornings, a challenge but worth every trip to be with the Soldiers.
I only made it to Training Command Headquarters here in Charlotte once a quarter.
Congratulations on making First Sergeant, one of the most rewarding and challenging positions I held during my career.
Thank you for your service, good luck for the rest of your career. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.
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