Posted on Nov 29, 2023
Cavalry Soldiers at Fort Carson Can't See Doctors in the Early Morning Under New Rules
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This Officer is making limitations on when a Soldier can seek healthcare by restricting hours???
Cavalry Soldiers at Fort Carson Can't See Doctors in the Early Morning Under New Rules
Posted from military.com
Fort Carson
Mental Health
Cavalry
Posted 1 y ago
Responses: 2
I don't see the big issue here, other than the optics of it looking like he doesn't care about his troops. The article said that most of those services aren't even offered before 9am anyways. Plus, his directive focused on appointments, which wouldn't cover going on sick call. Additionally, he said that subordinate commanders can approve appointments before 9am, but that the soldier must coordinate that with the commander first. So, soldiers can indeed still see doctors in the early morning. That's a misleading headline.
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SGT (Join to see)
Well I see a problem. First off this officer is interfering with the soldiers Doctors and that will land him or her in serious hot water.
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LTC Kevin B.
SGT (Join to see) - Not necessarily. If it's not a medical emergency or something urgent (thus being care done through a routine appointment), there's no reason the commander can't retain the right of approval for appointment times during the duty day.
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SFC Kelly Fuerhoff
LTC Kevin B. - I'm just confused what appointments are happening 0630-0800. Usually that's sick call hours - so he wants a soldier who is sick or injured to go see the commander first? Then usually at sick call you can get a same day appointment after 0900. He has no issue with 0900 and them missing a duty day and not performing their duties. He's just hyper focused on PT - which has always been the issue that "leaders" care more about PT scores than they do a soldier's mental, emotional or physical health.
The only time I have to miss for an appointment at PT is if my daughter has an appointment off base. Even if I scheduled it at 0800 or 0900 it's going to take me at least 2 hours with traffic to get there. And if I schedule it later in the day, that's still 2 hours I have to take to drive to account for traffic really any time during the day.
I think it's just weird this squadron commander is so hard up about it and what caused him to do it. Did he just happen to be at formation one day and notice people not there? And why so worried about only missing PT and not worried about missing during the rest of the duty day? Idk I just always found this weird when you get BN CDR or higher getting involved and micromanaging so low.
The only time I have to miss for an appointment at PT is if my daughter has an appointment off base. Even if I scheduled it at 0800 or 0900 it's going to take me at least 2 hours with traffic to get there. And if I schedule it later in the day, that's still 2 hours I have to take to drive to account for traffic really any time during the day.
I think it's just weird this squadron commander is so hard up about it and what caused him to do it. Did he just happen to be at formation one day and notice people not there? And why so worried about only missing PT and not worried about missing during the rest of the duty day? Idk I just always found this weird when you get BN CDR or higher getting involved and micromanaging so low.
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LTC Kevin B.
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff - Without further details from the story, everyone is really speculating here. However, what I can say is that during my 23 years on AD, including having been a commander, I knew zero commanders who ever tried to prevent their soldiers from going on sick call. And, going on sick call never involved making an appointment. That was always done on a walk-in basis. This appears to be a case of a commander wanting to clamp down on discretionary follow-up appointments (medical, legal, etc.) that were conflicting with PT time. If you can set up a 7am appointment multiple days in advance, why can't it just as easily be set up as a 9am or later appointment? I can see that. Also, if it needs to be before 9am, why can't you first run that by your commander? I can see where a commander would want to make that call, especially if he or she thinks it's adversely impacting a soldier's fitness.
On the PT issue, I previously agreed with you during my enlisted and junior officer days (I had a cynical view about PT). However, I eventually embraced the perspective that the #1 thing a commander needs to do is to take care of his/her people. And, the #1 way to take care of your people is to ensure that they protect their own health. And, the best way to do that is to ensure they are physically fit and stay healthy. All of that starts with PT.
I think this story is more about micromanagement. That's the key issue here, not a commander denying his troops medical care (which the headline infers).
On the PT issue, I previously agreed with you during my enlisted and junior officer days (I had a cynical view about PT). However, I eventually embraced the perspective that the #1 thing a commander needs to do is to take care of his/her people. And, the #1 way to take care of your people is to ensure that they protect their own health. And, the best way to do that is to ensure they are physically fit and stay healthy. All of that starts with PT.
I think this story is more about micromanagement. That's the key issue here, not a commander denying his troops medical care (which the headline infers).
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"Boyd's memo notes that units may approve earlier appointments, but that soldiers must consult with their commander before making that appointment -- a move that can be complicated in situations in which health care providers may have to schedule follow-ups without delay."
""We are in the business of warfighting, and to fight wars successfully, we must be physically fit for war. The rigors of combat will not forgive suboptimal fitness," Boyd's memo says. "This policy memo protects the time to condition our bodies and minds to be fully ready."
Traditionally, decisions on whether a soldier may be excused from low-profile scheduled unit events, such as fitness training, are left to noncommissioned officers. It is unclear whether Boyd's squadron has seen a significant uptick in soldiers failing the Army Combat Fitness Test, or ACFT, and his rules are a reaction."
So...are people failing their ACFT? ABCP? What caused him to think he needs to do this? I mean yeah if someone is constantly making appointments at PT and aren't like ETSing or retiring, ok that might be an issue. But - he wants them to miss out on performance of their duties which also affects warfighting capabilities but not PT...
I don't know...it just seems like more micro-managing. but most often the things people are doing at PT time is sick call. Not actual appointments. So if someone gets sick, gets injured they're supposed to now wait until 0900? And going to sick call sometimes you can get same day appointments for things. No one is getting any appointments at 630-0800 other than maybe physical therapy I have gotten once at 645. Most appointments you aren't getting until 0800 anyway. It's just sick call that's during PT.
Let's be real the Army just shoots itself in the foot constantly with these recruiting and retention issues. It's honestly things like this that just make people say "f* this I'm out." And if there are people taking advantage of going to sick call and malingering, take care of them individually. Mass punishment never works.
"How do yo
""We are in the business of warfighting, and to fight wars successfully, we must be physically fit for war. The rigors of combat will not forgive suboptimal fitness," Boyd's memo says. "This policy memo protects the time to condition our bodies and minds to be fully ready."
Traditionally, decisions on whether a soldier may be excused from low-profile scheduled unit events, such as fitness training, are left to noncommissioned officers. It is unclear whether Boyd's squadron has seen a significant uptick in soldiers failing the Army Combat Fitness Test, or ACFT, and his rules are a reaction."
So...are people failing their ACFT? ABCP? What caused him to think he needs to do this? I mean yeah if someone is constantly making appointments at PT and aren't like ETSing or retiring, ok that might be an issue. But - he wants them to miss out on performance of their duties which also affects warfighting capabilities but not PT...
I don't know...it just seems like more micro-managing. but most often the things people are doing at PT time is sick call. Not actual appointments. So if someone gets sick, gets injured they're supposed to now wait until 0900? And going to sick call sometimes you can get same day appointments for things. No one is getting any appointments at 630-0800 other than maybe physical therapy I have gotten once at 645. Most appointments you aren't getting until 0800 anyway. It's just sick call that's during PT.
Let's be real the Army just shoots itself in the foot constantly with these recruiting and retention issues. It's honestly things like this that just make people say "f* this I'm out." And if there are people taking advantage of going to sick call and malingering, take care of them individually. Mass punishment never works.
"How do yo
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LCpl Craig A. Charbonneau
I agree that the headline is very misleading. The VA as far as I am concerned is at the forefront of not only mental health issues but the implementation of Mental health programs and the discontinuation of those that don’t work and is very proud of her job. Mental health services never close for active duty, veterans and their caregivers and family.
The VA is always open for our most vulnerable .
The VA is always open for our most vulnerable .
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SFC Kelly Fuerhoff
LCpl Craig A. Charbonneau - What does the VA have to do with this? Did you read the artice? This is a squadron commander who said no appointments for soldiers during PT time. That it has to get cleared through the company commander or something. But the only things happening at 0630-0730 is sick call. So is he trying to say they can't go to sick call now? There aren't really any appointments happening before 0800.
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LCpl Craig A. Charbonneau
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff
It has everything to to with VA Heathcare. If it’s not inline the the Company Commanders directly the service person can present at and VA Health Care Facilitiy for care no matter what the time, day or circumstance is Convenience is not an option for someone who is sick.
It has everything to to with VA Heathcare. If it’s not inline the the Company Commanders directly the service person can present at and VA Health Care Facilitiy for care no matter what the time, day or circumstance is Convenience is not an option for someone who is sick.
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