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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3
I might not have any new information but I have serious doubts that Assad would gas civilians, in Idlib. It just makes wonder if he did, what did he gain out of it?
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SGT Michael Thorin
Same reason he launched them into Damascus in 2013. Assad started launching conventional attacks against these areas in 2012. His attacks have escalated in an attempt to keep civilians in these areas from joining the rebels.
His 2013 Sarin attacks were initially denied by the Assad administration as being carried out by the Syrian government, but he later admitted to it, and then said the weapons would thenceforth only be used to defend Syria.
These attacks are what amounts to his desire to completely break the will of his people to keep them from attempting to fight back and turn against the rebels.
A bit of criticism here in response to why would he gas civilians:
Why would he has civilians in 2013? Because he could, and he did.
Why, on the morning of March 16, 1988, did Iraqi war planes and artillery pound the Kurdish town of Halabja in northern Iraq with mustard gas and the deadly nerve agent sarin?
Because Saddam could.
Some 5,000 people - mainly women and children - died on the day, and up to 12,000 have lost their lives since. The method was the same as the Ghouta gas attack in Damascus, on August 21, 2013, just over 25 years later.
In both instances a conventional pre-bombardment - to break windows and doors and to get people underground - was followed by the deadly chemical weapons, sarin and mustard agent.
Heavier than air - and with no windows and doors to stop the "gas" - it found its victims helpless and unprotected in underground cellars and air-raid shelters. These crimes against humanity were then followed up with a conventional bombardment to destroy the evidence.
We cannot approach this situation using our logic. It doesn't work. To ask why they would gas innocent civilians like that implies that Assad runs a government that cares about innocent civilians.
You would be hard pressed to find many governments in the Middle East that care more for their citizens than they do for themselves.
You can't apply conventional western logic to areas like Syria, Iran and Iraq.
Now, as always, I could be completely wrong about this Austin, and it wouldn't be the first time if I am. Heck, the way my streak is right now, there's a good chance I may be, LOL. Part of my opinion on Assad having done the deed is from spending way too much time in the sandbox; it has made me a bit cynical of governments in that region.
His 2013 Sarin attacks were initially denied by the Assad administration as being carried out by the Syrian government, but he later admitted to it, and then said the weapons would thenceforth only be used to defend Syria.
These attacks are what amounts to his desire to completely break the will of his people to keep them from attempting to fight back and turn against the rebels.
A bit of criticism here in response to why would he gas civilians:
Why would he has civilians in 2013? Because he could, and he did.
Why, on the morning of March 16, 1988, did Iraqi war planes and artillery pound the Kurdish town of Halabja in northern Iraq with mustard gas and the deadly nerve agent sarin?
Because Saddam could.
Some 5,000 people - mainly women and children - died on the day, and up to 12,000 have lost their lives since. The method was the same as the Ghouta gas attack in Damascus, on August 21, 2013, just over 25 years later.
In both instances a conventional pre-bombardment - to break windows and doors and to get people underground - was followed by the deadly chemical weapons, sarin and mustard agent.
Heavier than air - and with no windows and doors to stop the "gas" - it found its victims helpless and unprotected in underground cellars and air-raid shelters. These crimes against humanity were then followed up with a conventional bombardment to destroy the evidence.
We cannot approach this situation using our logic. It doesn't work. To ask why they would gas innocent civilians like that implies that Assad runs a government that cares about innocent civilians.
You would be hard pressed to find many governments in the Middle East that care more for their citizens than they do for themselves.
You can't apply conventional western logic to areas like Syria, Iran and Iraq.
Now, as always, I could be completely wrong about this Austin, and it wouldn't be the first time if I am. Heck, the way my streak is right now, there's a good chance I may be, LOL. Part of my opinion on Assad having done the deed is from spending way too much time in the sandbox; it has made me a bit cynical of governments in that region.
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Austin Hocutt
Well my argument would shift into how is Russia still standing by him, because if he actually did gas the Syrian people that would make Russia look like a complete fool or incompetent with what they did back during 2013 with his chemical weapons. And I'm pretty sure Russia nor Syria would want that.
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SGT Victor Egorov
Assad's government isn't as monolithic as people tend to think. There is more than one power block in there making key decision. If attack was indeed executed by government forces its only reasonable objective was to give Assad a black eye. As it has. Out of current contenders for power, Assad is really the softer version of what could be in charge of Syria. For example, take his younger brother who reads more like one of the Sadam's psychotic children than our current necessary evil: Assad. Assad at least makes an effort to remain within international legal framework, at least pretend like he is. Or take one of the Islamist or Salafists groups that would see Syria as Islamic kingdom rather than secular constitutional republic that it has been in post colonial era. Ill take Assad over that any day.
As for why Russians still stand by him, its a very simple answer. There is no alternative in current government, where is opposition is now predominantly jihadist. FSA no where to be found, while Al Nusra(aka AQIS, like the guys that attacked us in 2001) and many of its affiliates is the main anti Assad block. All would be well if it wasn't for their hard stance on the issue of "death to America".
Lastly, its a bit naïve to explain Assad's action as "crazy" because he himself is crazy. No amount of crazy would have seen to his survival for the past 5 years of Syria going into freefall. Not only he managed to remain in control as his staff deserted, as army have almost completely fell apart at one point, as even his own allies(Russia Iran) sought to replace him. One has to be a very calculated madman to survive, consolidate, and begin pushing his enemies back as he has. The fact that his Army is still loyal to him and the government is worth its own topic. All despite heavy casualties, ample room to desert or opportunity to switch sides and all past setbacks the military continues to function. This is an indication that perhaps there is more to him and his legitimacy than what CNN ABC BBC would have us believe. So to try to explain his actions as "crazy as crazy does" to me seems to be simply short sighted.
As for why Russians still stand by him, its a very simple answer. There is no alternative in current government, where is opposition is now predominantly jihadist. FSA no where to be found, while Al Nusra(aka AQIS, like the guys that attacked us in 2001) and many of its affiliates is the main anti Assad block. All would be well if it wasn't for their hard stance on the issue of "death to America".
Lastly, its a bit naïve to explain Assad's action as "crazy" because he himself is crazy. No amount of crazy would have seen to his survival for the past 5 years of Syria going into freefall. Not only he managed to remain in control as his staff deserted, as army have almost completely fell apart at one point, as even his own allies(Russia Iran) sought to replace him. One has to be a very calculated madman to survive, consolidate, and begin pushing his enemies back as he has. The fact that his Army is still loyal to him and the government is worth its own topic. All despite heavy casualties, ample room to desert or opportunity to switch sides and all past setbacks the military continues to function. This is an indication that perhaps there is more to him and his legitimacy than what CNN ABC BBC would have us believe. So to try to explain his actions as "crazy as crazy does" to me seems to be simply short sighted.
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SGT Michael Thorin as of 8:00pm pacific time there have been 59 missles fired. Hopefully this will send a message.
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SPC Douglas Bolton
Austin Hocutt - very true Austin. We have to assume that the Pentagon did heavy views and soul searching before they took action. It is an incredibly tough decision. I have faith that all the necessary steps were taken.
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SGT Michael Thorin
A note here on whether it was the wrong person, the bombs were dropped from aircraft the Air Force Base that was targeted. Now, Russia is claiming that the bombs were conventional, and just happened to hit a terrorist sarin gas manufacturing facility, which is possible, but highly unlikely, given that Assad has the weapons, and there is no intelligence linking ISIS to having the ability to manufacture these weapons. Now, they may have them from old stockpiles or through Iran, but manufacturing is a stretch.
However, Austin, you are making one claim here that is undeniable, and that is that whatever I say, I may be completely off base. While I believe what I am saying to be accurate, I have absolutely no way of being any more positive of my view on this as you are of yours. That being said, I hope we sent the right message to the right people as well.
However, Austin, you are making one claim here that is undeniable, and that is that whatever I say, I may be completely off base. While I believe what I am saying to be accurate, I have absolutely no way of being any more positive of my view on this as you are of yours. That being said, I hope we sent the right message to the right people as well.
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Austin Hocutt
Well I agree but then again what will it look like if we jumped the gun and just decided to absolutely bomb the fuck out of that one airbase.
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SGT Victor Egorov
SGT Michael Thorin - there has been reports of some chemical stock pile going missing or captured by Al Nusra back in 2013
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