Posted on Apr 29, 2016
Green Beret who beat Afghan official over alleged child assault to stay in Army
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3
The problem with this case was that SFC Martland was in the WRONG.
He was "wrong for the right reasons." But he was still wrong. It wasn't his actions that got him kicked out. That was actually a "footnote" in this case. He got a "relief for cause" (a slap on the wrist) during that time period, but during a drawdown, that meant he "wasn't good enough" to retain. He had "bad paper" and the Army did what they do with Soldiers with bad paper. They cut him loose.
You punch a foreign cop, regardless of your reasons, you get bad paper. It doesn't matter if the guy deserves it. It doesn't matter if the guy is a Monster. It doesn't matter if the guy laughs about what he has done to little kids. You lose your cool, and you have to live with that decision. The consequences of that decision are the loss of your career. It #%$&^$ sucks. But the Army does not care about any single Soldier. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
The fact that the Army is bowing to public pressure to keep him is just as wrong. We keep talking about "Don't let the standards drop" well this is that. Don't lose your bearing and punch Afghani Cops, and you won't get kicked out of the Army. Pretty simple. This is a prime example of the standard being dropped for 1 man.
And yes I know this won't sit well with others who think the Afghani Cop was in the wrong. Of course he was in the wrong. But it's not OUR place to punish him. We have SOFA agreements for a reason. A SFC did NOT witness it happen. He did NOT break it up. He committed his sin AFTER the fact.
I understand why he did it, and I likely would have done the same, and I would be just as pissed about being drummed out. But I would know it was MY fault, not the Army's. Self-accountability here.
He was "wrong for the right reasons." But he was still wrong. It wasn't his actions that got him kicked out. That was actually a "footnote" in this case. He got a "relief for cause" (a slap on the wrist) during that time period, but during a drawdown, that meant he "wasn't good enough" to retain. He had "bad paper" and the Army did what they do with Soldiers with bad paper. They cut him loose.
You punch a foreign cop, regardless of your reasons, you get bad paper. It doesn't matter if the guy deserves it. It doesn't matter if the guy is a Monster. It doesn't matter if the guy laughs about what he has done to little kids. You lose your cool, and you have to live with that decision. The consequences of that decision are the loss of your career. It #%$&^$ sucks. But the Army does not care about any single Soldier. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
The fact that the Army is bowing to public pressure to keep him is just as wrong. We keep talking about "Don't let the standards drop" well this is that. Don't lose your bearing and punch Afghani Cops, and you won't get kicked out of the Army. Pretty simple. This is a prime example of the standard being dropped for 1 man.
And yes I know this won't sit well with others who think the Afghani Cop was in the wrong. Of course he was in the wrong. But it's not OUR place to punish him. We have SOFA agreements for a reason. A SFC did NOT witness it happen. He did NOT break it up. He committed his sin AFTER the fact.
I understand why he did it, and I likely would have done the same, and I would be just as pissed about being drummed out. But I would know it was MY fault, not the Army's. Self-accountability here.
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CPT Jack Durish
But it does matter. Everyone has the right to protect themselves and others from brutal attack. No one, not even law enforcement officials are immune to this. Indeed, those whom society entrusts with "power" are held to a higher standard of behavior and may be stopped when caught committing a criminal act. That's the law. That is good and right. That is just. This sergeant did the right thing and was punished by virtue of one thing only, political correctness.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
CPT Jack Durish - Absolutely, but "after the fact" is another story. His case highlights thus issue. He was NOT defending himself or another. He was seeking revenge. Huge difference. Outside his power.
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CPT Jack Durish
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - You caught me. I thought that the Sergeant was responding to an act during its commission. If not, then you are correct.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
CPT Jack Durish - No Sir. After. If it was during, My pitchfork would be just as high as everyone else's. Even so the punishment was "fair" being relief for cause.
What caught him was drawdown not the act.
What caught him was drawdown not the act.
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I erred in responding to Sgt Kennedy's post. I should have responded to all who view and join this discussion thread inasmuch as others may share Sgt Kennedy's opinion that no one has the right to punch a cop even if they're doing bad things. Everyone has the right to protect themselves and others from brutal attack. No one, not even law enforcement officials are immune to this. Indeed, those whom society entrusts with "power" should be held to a higher standard of behavior and may be stopped when caught committing a criminal act. That's the law. That is good and right. That is just. This sergeant did the right thing and was punished by virtue of one thing only, political correctness. His act should have been investigated and he should have been rewarded rather than reprimanded when the truth was revealed.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
To clarify (like I did our discussion above). I concur that every Citizen should fight back against abuses of Power when they witness it. Unfortunately, this specific case does not meet those requirements.
SFC Martland confronted and attacked the Afghani Police Officer AFTER the assault, which changes why he was punished. He was NOT defending himself or others. He was essentially enacting Revenge or "moral outrage" and was relived for cause. That in turn led to his QMP (which would likely not have occurred if we were not in drawdown).
SFC Martland confronted and attacked the Afghani Police Officer AFTER the assault, which changes why he was punished. He was NOT defending himself or others. He was essentially enacting Revenge or "moral outrage" and was relived for cause. That in turn led to his QMP (which would likely not have occurred if we were not in drawdown).
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I don't think that he should be brought back. What he did was wrong, and he got what he deserved. I sound like a douche with this, but there are going to be come possibly serious outcomes from this:
1. What happened is STILL going to continue to happen. I make jokes about man love Thursdays, but I don't find it funny one bit what actually goes on. We cannot take our morals and inflict them on others and swear we're correct. This is like your neighbor coming to your house and telling you that your kid doesn't know how to act. After you get done pummeling that person, your kid will still be the same. It's their country, their norms, and we're there to do a job. Not get "feely"with them even though the thought of child molestation is worth beating the shit out of someone to me.
2. Now there will be others who will attempt to do this. So what did the Army do by bringing him back? Opened the door to more issues from Soldiers thinking it's ok to beat the shit out of someone based off their personal moral compass. Are you gong to not have them relieved, loss of rank, and sent packing? If anyone thinks this will be an isolated case, they're wrong.
3. Retribution. This SFC's actions will affect more than his career. Now that the Afghans know he's back in, after what he did to them, I would not be surprised if they want some "payback", and those they go after aren't even the ones who did it. So an innocent Solder will pay dearly for an action he or she had nothing to do with other than be American. Sorry folks but that is a f*cked up thing to have on your conscience. But he's a freaking hero right? No he's going to make martyrs out of his own fellow Soldiers.
4. No good deed goes unpunished in the Army. If someone wants you out bad enough, they will get it and you. So he escaped this time, next time he won't be nearly as lucky. If he makes it to 20, great; I'm really happy for him. If not, I'm not surprised.
I worry about numbers 2 and 3. He might not see it, being he's trying to get what he wants, but that will not change the fact that both of those will happen. What will we tell our Joes that mentor the ABP, and ANP? Be vigilant and ready? Won't help much if they decide to blow themselves up and take a few of us with them. What commander is going to stand there after getting a report that his Soldier beat the brakes off someone who they "thought" or were told that a child was raped and let them Charlie Mike? I sympathize and I agree with the SFC, but I look beyond those actions and remember last year when I argued on here that he was right. I was SCHOOLED HARD by a fellow Green Beret who informed me about 1 through 3. After that, I understood how my moral compass should have no bearing on what I do professionally. I'm here to do a job; teaching you how to secure your country. My secondary job is to bring my Joes home and bring myself home the same way we arrived. In the midst of that, if I see something like that, REPORT it, and let the CoC handle it.
1. What happened is STILL going to continue to happen. I make jokes about man love Thursdays, but I don't find it funny one bit what actually goes on. We cannot take our morals and inflict them on others and swear we're correct. This is like your neighbor coming to your house and telling you that your kid doesn't know how to act. After you get done pummeling that person, your kid will still be the same. It's their country, their norms, and we're there to do a job. Not get "feely"with them even though the thought of child molestation is worth beating the shit out of someone to me.
2. Now there will be others who will attempt to do this. So what did the Army do by bringing him back? Opened the door to more issues from Soldiers thinking it's ok to beat the shit out of someone based off their personal moral compass. Are you gong to not have them relieved, loss of rank, and sent packing? If anyone thinks this will be an isolated case, they're wrong.
3. Retribution. This SFC's actions will affect more than his career. Now that the Afghans know he's back in, after what he did to them, I would not be surprised if they want some "payback", and those they go after aren't even the ones who did it. So an innocent Solder will pay dearly for an action he or she had nothing to do with other than be American. Sorry folks but that is a f*cked up thing to have on your conscience. But he's a freaking hero right? No he's going to make martyrs out of his own fellow Soldiers.
4. No good deed goes unpunished in the Army. If someone wants you out bad enough, they will get it and you. So he escaped this time, next time he won't be nearly as lucky. If he makes it to 20, great; I'm really happy for him. If not, I'm not surprised.
I worry about numbers 2 and 3. He might not see it, being he's trying to get what he wants, but that will not change the fact that both of those will happen. What will we tell our Joes that mentor the ABP, and ANP? Be vigilant and ready? Won't help much if they decide to blow themselves up and take a few of us with them. What commander is going to stand there after getting a report that his Soldier beat the brakes off someone who they "thought" or were told that a child was raped and let them Charlie Mike? I sympathize and I agree with the SFC, but I look beyond those actions and remember last year when I argued on here that he was right. I was SCHOOLED HARD by a fellow Green Beret who informed me about 1 through 3. After that, I understood how my moral compass should have no bearing on what I do professionally. I'm here to do a job; teaching you how to secure your country. My secondary job is to bring my Joes home and bring myself home the same way we arrived. In the midst of that, if I see something like that, REPORT it, and let the CoC handle it.
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CW4 (Join to see)
SSG Warren Swan - Fear of reprisals from dirty kid rapists is no reason not to act. This SFC did run it up his chain of command and they did nothing. That side of the story isn't in my link, but the situation is well-documented.
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CW4 (Join to see)
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - He did bring it to his chain of command. Do you have any idea how long IG or a congressional takes? The kid would be an adult before anything was done.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
CW4 (Join to see) - Just because we don't like the process doesn't mean we ignore it. Choosing to go outside the process means we choose to live with the consequences of our actions.
He chose to beat up an Afghani Cop. The consequences of beating up an Afghani Cop is losing one's career. Yes, the guy was a rapist. Yes, it was the "hard right." There's a reason we call it the HARD right. Because making it has consequences.
What if he had shot the guy instead? Would it not have been murder? What if he had accidentally killed the guy? He was a Green Beret. We don't get to take justice into our own hands. That's one of the rules. Even if the scumbag is a child rapist. As much as I would love to put the monster down, we have to follow the rules. We don't get to be the world police unless we play by the rules 100% of the time, and we hammer our own folks that don't.
He chose to beat up an Afghani Cop. The consequences of beating up an Afghani Cop is losing one's career. Yes, the guy was a rapist. Yes, it was the "hard right." There's a reason we call it the HARD right. Because making it has consequences.
What if he had shot the guy instead? Would it not have been murder? What if he had accidentally killed the guy? He was a Green Beret. We don't get to take justice into our own hands. That's one of the rules. Even if the scumbag is a child rapist. As much as I would love to put the monster down, we have to follow the rules. We don't get to be the world police unless we play by the rules 100% of the time, and we hammer our own folks that don't.
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