Posted on Oct 28, 2020
Inside the far-right militias preparing for the election's aftermath
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This is a preview of a story scheduled to broadcast on CBS 60 minutes. It should be interesting.
In my opinion, these so-called militias are illegal. Michigan has, besides the Michigan National Guard, a state constitutionally-authorized "Michigan Volunteer Defense Force", under the command and control of the Governor.
Michigan law also states that: "A person shall not assemble with 1 or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, or any explosive or incendiary device, if that person intends to use such a firearm or device in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder."
I am dismayed that so many members of the group in this clip self-identify as military-trained.
EDIT 2 Nov 2020: This 60 Minutes Story was not broadcast on Sunday, 1 November's 60 Minutes. Instead, it was released partially on the CBS 60 Minutes Youtube channel; Part 2 regarding the Proud Bois will reportedly be released there on Tuesday, 3 November. Links will be provided in the comments section.
In my opinion, these so-called militias are illegal. Michigan has, besides the Michigan National Guard, a state constitutionally-authorized "Michigan Volunteer Defense Force", under the command and control of the Governor.
Michigan law also states that: "A person shall not assemble with 1 or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, or any explosive or incendiary device, if that person intends to use such a firearm or device in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder."
I am dismayed that so many members of the group in this clip self-identify as military-trained.
EDIT 2 Nov 2020: This 60 Minutes Story was not broadcast on Sunday, 1 November's 60 Minutes. Instead, it was released partially on the CBS 60 Minutes Youtube channel; Part 2 regarding the Proud Bois will reportedly be released there on Tuesday, 3 November. Links will be provided in the comments section.
Election 2020
Militia
Military service
Edited 4 y ago
Posted 4 y ago
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I agree with the illegality of private armed groups. A real "well-regulated militia" falls under state or federal charter and control by the government. When it performs actions, members are formally activated by official orders
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/30/907720068/are-citizen-militias-legal
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/30/907720068/are-citizen-militias-legal
NPR's Michel Martin talks with Georgetown University law professor Mary McCord about the legality of citizen militias, like the one that took to the streets in Kenosha, Wis.
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LTC Eugene Chu
MSgt David Hoffman -
1. Your comparison of gun clubs and private armed paramilitary groups is apples and oranges. The former focuses on regulated ownership of guns for personal recreation. The latter specifically focuses on non-government groups possessing, brandishing and using weapons in public for political purposes.
2. It is an opinion based on existing laws. This NBC News opinion piece specifically cites state and federal law that mandate legitimate militia have official government charters. This article also cites a US Supreme court case (Presser v. Illinois) where a private militia did not fall under the Second Amendment.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/kyle-rittenhouse-his-militia-defense-ignores-private-paramilitaries-are-illegal-ncna1239397
1. Your comparison of gun clubs and private armed paramilitary groups is apples and oranges. The former focuses on regulated ownership of guns for personal recreation. The latter specifically focuses on non-government groups possessing, brandishing and using weapons in public for political purposes.
2. It is an opinion based on existing laws. This NBC News opinion piece specifically cites state and federal law that mandate legitimate militia have official government charters. This article also cites a US Supreme court case (Presser v. Illinois) where a private militia did not fall under the Second Amendment.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/kyle-rittenhouse-his-militia-defense-ignores-private-paramilitaries-are-illegal-ncna1239397
Opinion | What's the difference between a private militia and an armed mob? Nothing.
A militia operates under the authority of the president or a governor; if it doesn’t, it’s just an armed mob.
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Thank you for the interesting share from YouTube COL Korey Jackson , I served with the MIARNG.
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Interesting. Whether it be militias, or any other armed group, you often hear some similar defensive statements, that while they may be true, doesn't necessarily justify what SOME groups do.
For example, group A says they're formed to protect themselves and loved ones in case of a WROL event. They meet, train (in more than firearms), they help each other, they don't bother anyone. They just want to live their lives.
Then you have group B who says they're formed in the case of a tyrannical government overreach, maybe martial law or something. They meet, train, march, protest, overtly challenge their elected officials (which is their right), but also antagonize or instigate trouble, especially right now.
Where do we draw the line? Me personally, if you aren't threatening me or mine, it's not my business as I am not authorized or paid to do anything about it. But my point is every armed group isn't some radical trouble makers. Some are. I feel as how the government main priority is it's on continuity, they'll have no hesitation sweeping every armed group up as far left or far right extremists in an attempt to silence any potential threat to the business as usual method in which our government operates. I could be wrong, but let's have an INTELLIGENT and RESPECTFUL conversation. I'm always down to learn something new.
For example, group A says they're formed to protect themselves and loved ones in case of a WROL event. They meet, train (in more than firearms), they help each other, they don't bother anyone. They just want to live their lives.
Then you have group B who says they're formed in the case of a tyrannical government overreach, maybe martial law or something. They meet, train, march, protest, overtly challenge their elected officials (which is their right), but also antagonize or instigate trouble, especially right now.
Where do we draw the line? Me personally, if you aren't threatening me or mine, it's not my business as I am not authorized or paid to do anything about it. But my point is every armed group isn't some radical trouble makers. Some are. I feel as how the government main priority is it's on continuity, they'll have no hesitation sweeping every armed group up as far left or far right extremists in an attempt to silence any potential threat to the business as usual method in which our government operates. I could be wrong, but let's have an INTELLIGENT and RESPECTFUL conversation. I'm always down to learn something new.
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SSG (Join to see)
MSG Greg Kelly absolutely. It's kind of the same when it comes to those rioting about some police shootings of unarmed POC.
I get that not all cops are bad. I've met some great cops. I've also met cops who sterotyped me and said I fit a description of a suspect of a crime that happened around the corner about a half hour ago, when I literally just woke up from a nap and came outside. Not all black and brown people killed by police are criminals, unjust shootings happen a lot. But at the same time not all are innocent angels. We can't harbor those who go out amd be violent and cry when something happens to them when we know they're doing wrong. I think this applies both in what I just said and when it comes to armed extremist groups.
I get that not all cops are bad. I've met some great cops. I've also met cops who sterotyped me and said I fit a description of a suspect of a crime that happened around the corner about a half hour ago, when I literally just woke up from a nap and came outside. Not all black and brown people killed by police are criminals, unjust shootings happen a lot. But at the same time not all are innocent angels. We can't harbor those who go out amd be violent and cry when something happens to them when we know they're doing wrong. I think this applies both in what I just said and when it comes to armed extremist groups.
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COL Korey Jackson
SSG (Join to see) - I'm not totally sure on the "why" for Wyoming, but I can see hints of the discussion in their state constitutional convention. They also have a law saying the only flag or banner flown above the militia will be the American flag, which did merit discussion in their original constitutional convention. In some regards, it just makes sense. If every able-bodied man between designated ages in the state are part of the state militia, why allow them to be part of some other militia (other state or a private militia)?
Wyoming is also unique in that their laws permit their state militia to pursue and engage across state borders, with the agreement of the neighboring state authorities (governor); and the reciprocal.
Regarding how it (the violent ones) is stopped: Enforcing the states' laws is the role of the states' law enforcement, working with the judiciary; which may be augmented when appropriate by the state militia.
Wyoming is also unique in that their laws permit their state militia to pursue and engage across state borders, with the agreement of the neighboring state authorities (governor); and the reciprocal.
Regarding how it (the violent ones) is stopped: Enforcing the states' laws is the role of the states' law enforcement, working with the judiciary; which may be augmented when appropriate by the state militia.
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SSG (Join to see)
COL Korey Jackson thanks for the breakdown. Just learned something new about Wyoming. And you're right, it does make sense not allow someone to be a member of another milia if they are part of the state militia
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SSG (Join to see)
MSG Greg Kelly hahaha that's crazy. I would have stopped after the second time lol. Yeah, I think the real hard solution to most of our problems in America is a sit down with all parties involved actually working towards a common goal. Prison reform, police reform, etc., are all definitely needed, but it can only be effective if both sides are on the same page. Yes we need to invest in our LEOs knowing de-escalation techniques. We also need people to stop thinking that bad guy/gangster/outlaw life is so cool.
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