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1SG Steven Imerman
6
6
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No kidding. Hazing in the Air Force is hiding the hair dryer.
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SGT Dani W.
SGT Dani W.
10 mo
When I read this you got me laughing good 1SG.
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1SG Steven Imerman
1SG Steven Imerman
10 mo
SGT Dani W. - Can't you just see it?
"Come on, guys! This isn't funny!"
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Lt Col Charlie Brown
Lt Col Charlie Brown
10 mo
The golf clubs!
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CWO3 Us Marine
5
5
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Define hazing. Good training for the purpose of a highly disciplined Marine is a better description, unless a line is crossed. If it instills discipline and promotes readiness, it's only hazing when the line is crossed. Most Marines know what this means. Firmness, fairness, and with dignity defines it. The Ribbon Creek incident and others since have shown a departure from the norm. A journalist might be offended by a stare or raised voice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_Creek_incident
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SGT Dani W.
SGT Dani W.
10 mo
SFC James Cameron i do not see (based on my minimal research) how the line crossing ceremonies are hazing, were you forcing people to dress how they didn't want or act in ways they didn't want or made them look humiliated? Looks like just some weird acting bonding event.
The NCO Gauntlet is definitely hazing (by given definition).
I can agree that definition could be broad to the eyes of perception but esprit de coros has not suffered from the crackdown on hazing. There is lots of bonding stuff we can still do.
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SGT Dani W.
SGT Dani W.
10 mo
SGT Dani W. i would also like to note, there may not have been any malice or abuse it intent, but the action of the NCO Gauntlet is without a doubt malicious and abusive. Just making the marines dumb to their own actions. A simple handshake and congratulations would have been just as memorable.
In Army there is history of punching on Rank (hazing, definitely don't do this) and people would one-up that to include kill their soldier by sledgehammering the rank on...
I agree some people's perceptions maybe exaggerated, but we definitely had (have) a problem with hazing. If you do the right thing and make sure doesn't fit the points in the definition and be smart about it, we should be fine.
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CWO3 Us Marine
CWO3 (Join to see)
10 mo
SGT Dani W. - It was a form of initiation for a group rather than an individual. Unlike Cadet MacArthur allegedly standing over a sword at West Point, it was a right of passage. They differ also because one was Command sponsored, the other was likely after hours. There is always excess, so it was essentially toned down to a near existence. Pinning stripes was changed similarly for the same reason. A broken femur for blood stripes or dislocated shoulder was adverse to both mission and men. Gold jump wings got pinned and special units had other initiations for years and with great benefit to esprit de corps until some went awry, and a journalist found out. Some encourage a unit tattoo, but can't require it. I couldn't find the ALMAR originally prohibiting excessive pinning, but think it was while Lt Gen Christmas was Manpower boss at HQMC. https://www.marines.mil/News/Messages/Messages-Display/Article/886336/hazing/
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SFC James Cameron
SFC James Cameron
10 mo
SGT Dani W. yes and no. The Army doesn’t have the significance and heraldry of the blood stripe that the Corps does. I see both sides of your presentation though. I feel having received my blood stripes from my new peers separated me from my old peers and bore more weight than a handshake . I never once looked back and thought I’d been hazed. I do think back and say “damn I love those guys...” often. I do want to add that there is a greater significance in the separation of Marine and Army NCOs and their subordinates. That just goes back to Naval tradition though.
As you and CWO3 McIntosh pointed out though, there is always a Farva in the group of super troopers that does something with a sledgehammer to ruin things that were initially done all in good humor.
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Sgt Field Radio Operator
4
4
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There is a fine line between hazing and molding young men and women into Marines.
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CPO Nate S.
CPO Nate S.
10 mo
C8b579d5
Sgt (Join to see) 100% agree! People actually 'do know' when a line is being cross. What becomes interesting to me is who is creating the line and why has "that line" been created. If created with purpose and forethought that all are trained to recognize and to respect - then great! But, if the line is established and keeps moving so standards on one way on one day and one way on the next day then both personal and unit cohesion suffer on such whims!!!

What is more important is the 1st Courts Martial for public consumption that attempts to define something as 'hazing' that is in fact 'molding'. There are things that are 'clearly' hazing when there is by all accounts no legitimate reason by a cross section for its need as a tool to mold members individually or as a unit, but there are those things some think as hazing that "are molding" with a purpose to actually ready people to survive difficult scenarios (e.g. combat, POW, etc.).

A FAILURE to properly and purposefully prepare our men and women for the deliberate violation of rules our enemies very often DO NOT abide by (aka Geneva Convention, human rights, etc.) and how to deal with our enemy's misappropriation of such rules, will undermind the troops when they most need standards borne of learning how to deal with them. Standards of conduct that are clear and have been trained on in such a manner so as to allow them to be able abide by such high standards when is MOST COUNTS!

For those reading this post who have not read the Code of Conduct in a while here is it again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Code_of_Conduct_(United_States_Military).pdf.

Just saying...............................
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