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“It’s a problem,” SMA Dailey said. “Physical fitness is a problem in the Army.” Agree? Disagree?
NCOs still getting taller (and heavier) on NCOERs.
What causes the Army's issue with physical fitness? Is it as simple as physical fitness not really being inspected (ie, that which isn't inspected is neglected)?
I've always wondered why there isn't a requirement on NCOERs and OERs to actually record one's APFT score, and height and weight data. Is the fix as simple as putting the actual data on evaluations?
I do agree with SMA Dailey: physical fitness is an issue in the Army. I recently found myself back on a U.S. Army base for a couple weeks, the first time I'd spent that much time on base since 2008. I was shocked at the sheer number of (by my uncalibrated eye) apparently extremely overweight and apparently obese individuals in uniform, mostly majors and above and E-7 and above (an observation made even starker by the fact that our combat uniform is extremely slimming).
NCOs still getting taller (and heavier) on NCOERs.
What causes the Army's issue with physical fitness? Is it as simple as physical fitness not really being inspected (ie, that which isn't inspected is neglected)?
I've always wondered why there isn't a requirement on NCOERs and OERs to actually record one's APFT score, and height and weight data. Is the fix as simple as putting the actual data on evaluations?
I do agree with SMA Dailey: physical fitness is an issue in the Army. I recently found myself back on a U.S. Army base for a couple weeks, the first time I'd spent that much time on base since 2008. I was shocked at the sheer number of (by my uncalibrated eye) apparently extremely overweight and apparently obese individuals in uniform, mostly majors and above and E-7 and above (an observation made even starker by the fact that our combat uniform is extremely slimming).
SMA: 'We've got to get the Army back in shape'
Posted from armytimes.com
Fitness
Physical Training
Standards
Army
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 11
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We are seeing a problem of indiscipline! Leadership making excuses not to go to PT, how the hell do you make an appointment so early in the morning that you cant do PT??? Or come up with someBS inventory that takes priority over PT? People, things are changing, best you get your tail back in shape, and be where you are supposed to be! Why is obey orders a big deal - these things are on the training schedule and published 6 - 8 weeks out. Be where you are supposed to be, in the right uniform and do the right thing!
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MAJ (Join to see)
CSM Michael J. Uhlig Thanks for the response, well said. On the appointment issue: why do we let entities that Soldiers need to visit (ie, dental, medical) start appointments during PT time? I just scheduled a dental appointment at an Army clinic; the only available time they had was 0730. If times are really changing, then Army leadership will need to adjust this issue. As you say, this is a leadership issue; ie, allowing Army entities to schedule early appointments is something that could easily be changed by Army leadership, probably at the base level or below.
I also like your idea of the training schedule being an order that is published and approved 6-8 weeks out. I would suspect, though, that most folks find that to be a laughable idea. It has been a while since I was in a normal Army unit, but I'd guess on a daily basis that things haven't changed: the training schedule is published 6-8 weeks out, and then largely ignored as higher hqs send taskers down the chain that conflict with already scheduled training. As you're a CSM, hopefully your unit doesn't experience this; one of the biggest challenges I had as a company commander was trying to balance the pre-approved and scheduled training on the training calendar with what I saw as largely BS taskers from higher level CSMs that pulled significant manpower away from training (you know, those police calls and cleaning details just gotta be done!).
I also like your idea of the training schedule being an order that is published and approved 6-8 weeks out. I would suspect, though, that most folks find that to be a laughable idea. It has been a while since I was in a normal Army unit, but I'd guess on a daily basis that things haven't changed: the training schedule is published 6-8 weeks out, and then largely ignored as higher hqs send taskers down the chain that conflict with already scheduled training. As you're a CSM, hopefully your unit doesn't experience this; one of the biggest challenges I had as a company commander was trying to balance the pre-approved and scheduled training on the training calendar with what I saw as largely BS taskers from higher level CSMs that pulled significant manpower away from training (you know, those police calls and cleaning details just gotta be done!).
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CPL (Join to see)
A 1sg once said to our company ...fine...don't do PT. Don't do it here, don't do it on your own, don't do it anywhere. But when you fail that PT test twice and the commander starts your paperwork, the only person you have to blame is staring you straight back in the face. Do me a favor and skip PT if you hate it so much because I want soldiers in my unit who want to be fit, not ones that I have to force to be fit. Keep ducking PT guys and to the rest of you, be ready to welcome a few new soldiers into the unit!
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MAJ (Join to see) and CSM Michael J. Uhlig I find this a very interesting topic. The reason for that is clearly not a dig on the Army. The Air Force has in the last few years, switched gears and is going great gonzo on PT. The most important thing period seems to be PT. PT is discussed in just about every meeting, briefing etc that goes on.
You go to an Air Force Base, and see PT being conducted (this never used to happen outside of a training base).
People are being disciplined and bounced from service, retiring or just leaving because they have decided that PT is too much of an issue, or they have issues that prevent them from passing (of course, officially, they will not say that is the reason for leaving).
It is harder and harder to stay in shape as we age and our bodies have gotten the crap kicked out of them. It takes discipline-as was pointed out, to maintain the standards. The thought process of do as I say, not as I do, does not work. Troops pick up on that.
As an old guy, I take personal pride in knowing that I am still "able" to serve.
You go to an Air Force Base, and see PT being conducted (this never used to happen outside of a training base).
People are being disciplined and bounced from service, retiring or just leaving because they have decided that PT is too much of an issue, or they have issues that prevent them from passing (of course, officially, they will not say that is the reason for leaving).
It is harder and harder to stay in shape as we age and our bodies have gotten the crap kicked out of them. It takes discipline-as was pointed out, to maintain the standards. The thought process of do as I say, not as I do, does not work. Troops pick up on that.
As an old guy, I take personal pride in knowing that I am still "able" to serve.
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Maj (Join to see)
Here at Tinker that certainly isn't the case with PT. I've seen several dudes fail and not be put on a workout plan. When I was a MDG guy if you failed the mock test you had a program for the next month consisting of working out 5 days a week. Now being in a flying squadron it's all about the mission. Not a lot of balance, but again individuals should keep themselves in shape for our Open Book PT Test.
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CMSgt James Nolan
Maj (Join to see) - Yes sir, and to be clear, plenty are getting demoted and/or booted for not passing. And, not just the old guys......
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Maj (Join to see)
Indeed Chief. I've seen young guys get the boot after 2 or 3 failures...rightfully so in my opinion.
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MAJ (Join to see) - sir, this has been a problem for as far back as I can remember. After HOW MANY surveys, yadda yadda, now leadership is seeing a problem? This is a clear case of (1) the CoC's failure to convey bad news and (2) an institutional inability to address the issue. SMH
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1SG Michael Blount
Perhaps if the CoC paid attention to the NCOES and PME instructors and DS on the ground, fitness wouldn't be a problem now
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MAJ (Join to see)
Agreed. Lots of potential fixes. Anything effective will be in the realm of policy changes; it takes more than commentary from the SMA.
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