Posted on Oct 6, 2016
This Comic Series Perfectly Explains The Need For Intersectional Feminism - GirlTalkHQ
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Feminism is seen as a dirty word to a lot of people (women included!). What prevents you from adopting the term as your own?
ROE:
Don't be an *sshole.
No mention of any political parties or candidates in any manner.
Respect each other.
Keep conversation relevant.
Individual experiences are not considered proof of anything.
ROE:
Don't be an *sshole.
No mention of any political parties or candidates in any manner.
Respect each other.
Keep conversation relevant.
Individual experiences are not considered proof of anything.
This Comic Series Perfectly Explains The Need For Intersectional Feminism - GirlTalkHQ
Posted from girltalkhq.com
Equality
Feminism
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 5
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Cross-post from other thread.
The issue with Feminism as a movement is that there are multiple waves and each wave has become progressively different and less defined as to what Feminism is or is not. "Modern" Feminism is attempting to co-opt Egalitarianism, however, it ignores the "equality" aspects and focuses on the "raising" of one specific subset. It creates serious philosophical conflicts.
Let us assume for a moment that "All people are created equal" (Egalitarianism 101). Feminism is a subset thereof. Unfortunately, there are sects of the movement who will ignore other subsets like the Men's Rights movement and view their issues as "less important" even though both are suffering the same inequity.
Using a military example, since this is a military forum, Conscription (Selective Service). BOTH sides should be working towards either complete abolition OR inclusion of both genders. Arguments for single sex inclusion should be viewed as "distraction to the cause." Unfortunately, that is not the case (from either side). Rather than work together, both sides conflict with each other due to "agenda." Equality (Egalitarianism) is not the actual goal.
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However, from the article:
"“By saying that you’re an egalitarian and not a feminist acknowledges the fact you don’t know what feminism is,” said another."
I have to disagree with this statement, as I would like to believe I have a pretty solid understand of what Feminism and Egalitarianism are. I believe Feminism as a movement is "limiting" and although it can be "empowering" (per the article) it can also be extremely negative. The "tone" of the article is attempting to force a belief system upon another. Something which Feminism at its core, should be against, however, Egalitarianism is not.
The issue with Feminism as a movement is that there are multiple waves and each wave has become progressively different and less defined as to what Feminism is or is not. "Modern" Feminism is attempting to co-opt Egalitarianism, however, it ignores the "equality" aspects and focuses on the "raising" of one specific subset. It creates serious philosophical conflicts.
Let us assume for a moment that "All people are created equal" (Egalitarianism 101). Feminism is a subset thereof. Unfortunately, there are sects of the movement who will ignore other subsets like the Men's Rights movement and view their issues as "less important" even though both are suffering the same inequity.
Using a military example, since this is a military forum, Conscription (Selective Service). BOTH sides should be working towards either complete abolition OR inclusion of both genders. Arguments for single sex inclusion should be viewed as "distraction to the cause." Unfortunately, that is not the case (from either side). Rather than work together, both sides conflict with each other due to "agenda." Equality (Egalitarianism) is not the actual goal.
------
However, from the article:
"“By saying that you’re an egalitarian and not a feminist acknowledges the fact you don’t know what feminism is,” said another."
I have to disagree with this statement, as I would like to believe I have a pretty solid understand of what Feminism and Egalitarianism are. I believe Feminism as a movement is "limiting" and although it can be "empowering" (per the article) it can also be extremely negative. The "tone" of the article is attempting to force a belief system upon another. Something which Feminism at its core, should be against, however, Egalitarianism is not.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
SSG Jessica Bautista - Keep in mind that I am NOT a part of EITHER group. I merely used one as a counter-example for the other. The usage of "you" (I'll assume a general "you" as opposed to a specific "you" meaning me) is not always apt.
As noted above, because 3rd wave feminism (specifically 3rd wave) is SELF-defined as opposed to collective in nature, there is NO clear definition about "when" or "how" equal footing will be achieved, merely that the eventual goal is equality and that the focus is on women FIRST.
This is counter to Egalitarianism as a whole, even if it supports Feminism. Saying that Feminism care about Men's Rights too does little if "some are more equal than others" when it comes to priorities of fixes.
Additionally, there is an assumption that some things are broken when the actual data does not support that conclusion. This is compounded by disingenuous argumentation (and bending of statistics) to meet specific goals.
As noted above, because 3rd wave feminism (specifically 3rd wave) is SELF-defined as opposed to collective in nature, there is NO clear definition about "when" or "how" equal footing will be achieved, merely that the eventual goal is equality and that the focus is on women FIRST.
This is counter to Egalitarianism as a whole, even if it supports Feminism. Saying that Feminism care about Men's Rights too does little if "some are more equal than others" when it comes to priorities of fixes.
Additionally, there is an assumption that some things are broken when the actual data does not support that conclusion. This is compounded by disingenuous argumentation (and bending of statistics) to meet specific goals.
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SSG Jessica Bautista
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - duly noted. For the sake of this thread, I'll assume everyone is neutral unless otherwise stated.
Funny you mention self-definition. Small break for a little humor, if you will, but the brain named itself and everyone just followed suit. Draw parallels, or don't. :)
As for priority of fixes, I'll put it this way. Take a house that has a squeaky floor caused by the leaking roof. Which one has priority, assuming you can only fix one?
Also, if you cite data, please make it easier for the group to find the reference.
Funny you mention self-definition. Small break for a little humor, if you will, but the brain named itself and everyone just followed suit. Draw parallels, or don't. :)
As for priority of fixes, I'll put it this way. Take a house that has a squeaky floor caused by the leaking roof. Which one has priority, assuming you can only fix one?
Also, if you cite data, please make it easier for the group to find the reference.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
SSG Jessica Bautista - We've been speaking in generalities thus far, hence no citations. When I mention a specific I'll cite.
Within the context of your example, it is implied that Feminism is the leaking roof or has the higher priority. That is the crux of the issue (see above). A leaking roof means little in the summer months, but a squeaky floor can be a huge deal for a carpenter trying to get some sleep... it's all about context.
Using the article as a source and the included cartoon, take some of the "lower priority" Feminist issues then compare them to some of the Men's Rights issues (like Custody Equity). Which would have a priority? It becomes EXTREMELY Subjectively to do a comparative analysis at all.
The issue with Feminism as a philosophy is that it does promote "women first" as opposed to "issue first." The lens of discussion is formulated specifically through a female perspective. There is nothing inherently wrong with that but it does have the potential to alienate (exclude) a huge audience.
Within the context of your example, it is implied that Feminism is the leaking roof or has the higher priority. That is the crux of the issue (see above). A leaking roof means little in the summer months, but a squeaky floor can be a huge deal for a carpenter trying to get some sleep... it's all about context.
Using the article as a source and the included cartoon, take some of the "lower priority" Feminist issues then compare them to some of the Men's Rights issues (like Custody Equity). Which would have a priority? It becomes EXTREMELY Subjectively to do a comparative analysis at all.
The issue with Feminism as a philosophy is that it does promote "women first" as opposed to "issue first." The lens of discussion is formulated specifically through a female perspective. There is nothing inherently wrong with that but it does have the potential to alienate (exclude) a huge audience.
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SSG Jessica Bautista
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - when you said "actual data," I assumed you got that data from somewhere. I pull wage data from the US Bureau of Labor and Statistics, for example.
Who is walking all over the house while the carpenter sleeps? Summer rain is prevalent in some areas (just as certain issues are). Assuming that roof is only an issue when rains, it would still make more sense to fix the roof first, as the floor would only get worse otherwise.
Intersectional feminism specifically triages and then addresses issues priorities on multiple fronts. And really, if feminism isn't intersectional, it only belongs to middle class white women.
Who is walking all over the house while the carpenter sleeps? Summer rain is prevalent in some areas (just as certain issues are). Assuming that roof is only an issue when rains, it would still make more sense to fix the roof first, as the floor would only get worse otherwise.
Intersectional feminism specifically triages and then addresses issues priorities on multiple fronts. And really, if feminism isn't intersectional, it only belongs to middle class white women.
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Cross-posted.
'Feminist' is much like communism: a great idea in a perfect world, but disastrous in a world populated with humans that are hard-coded to look out for number one, first and always. Now, before you rip me a new one, this is why I say that: much like the BLM movement, the feminist movement started out with good people with an admirable goal -- equality for women. Unfortunately, just like BLM, the movement has been taken over by militant 'feminists' and warped to something very different than it's original stated purpose.
So given only those two choices, I go with egalitarian.
'Feminist' is much like communism: a great idea in a perfect world, but disastrous in a world populated with humans that are hard-coded to look out for number one, first and always. Now, before you rip me a new one, this is why I say that: much like the BLM movement, the feminist movement started out with good people with an admirable goal -- equality for women. Unfortunately, just like BLM, the movement has been taken over by militant 'feminists' and warped to something very different than it's original stated purpose.
So given only those two choices, I go with egalitarian.
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SSG Jessica Bautista
SN Greg Wright - ROE, remember? I mean, I can address your response, but I hate breaking my word.
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SN Greg Wright
SSG Jessica Bautista - I guess you're referring to my use of BLM as an example? As a 'political party'? Because if you're classing it such (under your own rules), then you break your own rule by mentioning 'feminism', because 'feminism' would also have to be classed as such...a 'political party'. Myself, I regard them as movements, not political parties.
I certainly hope that's what you meant. I don't think my post was A-hole-ish.
I certainly hope that's what you meant. I don't think my post was A-hole-ish.
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SSG Jessica Bautista
SN Greg Wright - also, the movement, for the sake of this thread, is defined by the linked comic. Facts over feelings please.
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