Posted on Dec 12, 2016
This Marine Vet Was Fired As A Cop For Following His Military Instincts
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I don't think I would have been able to do,what the Police Officer did. If I were a Police Officer and I rolled up to a scene with a guy holding a gun, he would be DRT (Dead Right There). This is a different story about a cop who wouldn't shoot the perp.
Marine veteran Stephen Mader refused to shoot Ronald Williams. It turns out his instincts were right.
For several moments, Stephen Mader and 23-year-old Ronald Williams were alone in Williams’ front yard in Weirton, West Virginia, each man with a gun in his hand.
A recent NPR profile details the events of May 6 that ended with Williams dead, and led to Mader being fired for refusing to shoot him.
Marine veteran Stephen Mader refused to shoot Ronald Williams. It turns out his instincts were right.
For several moments, Stephen Mader and 23-year-old Ronald Williams were alone in Williams’ front yard in Weirton, West Virginia, each man with a gun in his hand.
A recent NPR profile details the events of May 6 that ended with Williams dead, and led to Mader being fired for refusing to shoot him.
This Marine Vet Was Fired As A Cop For Following His Military Instincts
Posted from taskandpurpose.com
Police
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Death
Posted 8 y ago
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I am a retired law enforcement officer, and I can tell you that this Marine did exactly what he should have done. He maintained control of the situation while using as much force (drawn weapon and verbal commands) as necessary Where this gets a little hairy is the difference between action and reaction. Had the suspect had a mag in the weapon, and moved to shoot the officer, then they officer would likely have been shot at (I have no idea about the shooting skill of the suspect so I wont speculate here) but the officer was in danger and may not have even know it. I personally blame the stupid ROI handed down by the current administration. As much as you want restraint in a police officer, it is shameful that this Marine learned that sort of restraint in a combat zone.
Before you light me up. I was at a training facility in Greenbay WI once, with new recruits. The scenario was played out with simmunition rounds (paint rounds that fire from a real weapon at 600ft per second) I was the Opfor. I was playing a suicidal man with a gun to my head. Each officer had to address me, after a certain time I was to change my bearing and shoot the officers. They start off, not knowing my intentions, but being aimed in on me as they give me verbal commands. With a gun to my head I was able to shoot 23 police officer in a row before they could react to me turning my gun on them. Being a police officer is dangerous, being in a war is much more dangerous. Training like a police officer will get you killed in combat.
Before you light me up. I was at a training facility in Greenbay WI once, with new recruits. The scenario was played out with simmunition rounds (paint rounds that fire from a real weapon at 600ft per second) I was the Opfor. I was playing a suicidal man with a gun to my head. Each officer had to address me, after a certain time I was to change my bearing and shoot the officers. They start off, not knowing my intentions, but being aimed in on me as they give me verbal commands. With a gun to my head I was able to shoot 23 police officer in a row before they could react to me turning my gun on them. Being a police officer is dangerous, being in a war is much more dangerous. Training like a police officer will get you killed in combat.
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SGT (Join to see)
Cpl Joshua Caldwell, So I don't get the comparison. Why did the Marine do exactly what he should have done? Maybe as a Marine in combat, but, then you write about shooting 23 police officers with your gun to your head. Had the perp had ammo, the police officer might well have been shot, or killed. I can understand reaction to the situation, but not any action, but verbal commands and his weapon drawn. No other action was taken until backup arrived and the backup shot and killed the perp. He was a rookie out for his first night alone. That could have played into him not firing the weapon.
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Cpl Joshua Caldwell
A combat Marine is very different from a police officer. The world of civilian law enforcement is one of protecting lives, and the threshold for using force is a LOT higher. In a combat zone you had better be much more aggressive in your response to perceived threats, if you are not then you enemy will take advantage of your hesitation and you will leave in a body bag. In a combat zone I would have shot this guy in the head, in the civilian world that first twitch of his hand (assuming that I was close enough) I would have shot his hand. That Marine played a very dangerous game, and it was not one that someone trained for combat should have ever considered, he literally surrendered the initiative in a gun fight to his opponent. Civilian police die often because they are trained to be less aggressive than the situation requires, in essence they error on the side of caution. Nobody who came from a combat environment should make the same error. If anything that Marine should have shot the suspect. The suspect apparently was trying to provoke him into doing so buy displaying the means and opportunity to kill, and faking the intent. This is what we refer to as suicide by cop. It is tragic but warranted given the circumstances and allotted time to make your decision. I would not have fired this Marine, but I sure as hell would have put him through a series of training evolution to teach him that his failure to act should have cost him his life
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This is the problem, with recent service members becoming Cops in the US, we are trained not to shoot unless the weapon is pointed at you, and ready to shoot. They have armed Militias all over Iraq and Afghanistan, and they all Carrie weapons, but are not usually the bad guy's. We would run convoys or patrols and you would see men, and children with AK's all the time, but you have to watch them closely,but not engage. He is correct we are trained real hard on this before deployments and do drills and more drills and drills and then FTX and more ROE drills. You have to give young troops today credit for the way they have to fight the wars today, everything is not black and white.
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SGT (Join to see)
CPO (Join to see), I give all of you guys and gals credit for the way you have to train and fight.
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Such a shame. I really can't comment on what they now teach in the Police Academy since I went thru 1991. but I feel as a retired Deputy I would have done the same thing. It used to be taught that unless your life or the life of another was in immanent danger, do not fire.
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SGT (Join to see)
The same thing the Marine was taught when he was in. I guess it was ok in a war where civilians were used as shields, so there would not be a big stink over killing a civilian, and possibly the shooter gets arrested. In this case, he got fired for doing his job. I would say, had I been the Police Officer, I would have at least shot him in the leg, since the perp wasn't showing any threatening moves. Just my opinion.
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