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Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 15
If they enlisted as a male of female then that should be how they should remain. Let the person change on his own time and dime. Tax dollars should not be used for this.
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Well Hell, they can't help veterans now, how can they afford doing sex changes. Simple math.
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SGT (Join to see)
They shouldn't have said they would approve them. I think it's someone or something else. You don't automatically realize it's cost is too much, PO3 Ricky Foster.
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It's a BS answer. We print the #$%^& money. "Cost" should NEVER be an issue when talking about Veteran Care.
The only reason anyone finds this acceptable is because it happens to be LGBT. If this was about Prosthetics, we'd be losing our damn minds. If it was about cosmetic surgery for Burns from IEDs, same result.
If we can afford planes that don't work (F35s), and ships that don't float (DD-1000 series), we can afford any amount of Veteran Health Care.
The only reason anyone finds this acceptable is because it happens to be LGBT. If this was about Prosthetics, we'd be losing our damn minds. If it was about cosmetic surgery for Burns from IEDs, same result.
If we can afford planes that don't work (F35s), and ships that don't float (DD-1000 series), we can afford any amount of Veteran Health Care.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
SSG Robert Webster - I used Tripper Dipper as an absurdist argument because his entire argument was absurd to begin with. He has consistently shown disdain for the LGBT community in this and other threads and that specific point was merely to highlight how subjective "need" can be defined by an outsider. The US Government has authorized those payments and that ends the discussion in my book, just like when the US Government authorized Veteran Heath Care for LGBT Treatment it ended the discussion in my book. This however is a "step back in policy" not based on need, but on COST which is a BS argument. We don't accept that answer with other Vet Health issues because "we don't have enough money."
Had the argument been RESOURCES (as in Priority Groups) like Doctor or Facility availability, this would be an entirely different discussion. I have no problem saying "we are not equipped to provide these services." (that is at least an understandable answer, as our government is incompetent). Per your above, "financial assessments" are an OBJECTIVE forms of "needs" (government treats everyone the same) statement. They don't look at the problem. They look at the PERSON (Low income class).
Your closing paragraph sums it up. You don't understand. I don't understand either. I am not a LGBT person. But I do know being an LGBT person is NOT a "belief" system. It is PHYSICAL REALITY. They do not "believe" they are "trapped in the wrong body," (cliche), they are physically the wrong gender for their mind.
The Intersex issue is completely separate from Gender Dysphoria, as that (IS) is a medically physical condition.
Had the argument been RESOURCES (as in Priority Groups) like Doctor or Facility availability, this would be an entirely different discussion. I have no problem saying "we are not equipped to provide these services." (that is at least an understandable answer, as our government is incompetent). Per your above, "financial assessments" are an OBJECTIVE forms of "needs" (government treats everyone the same) statement. They don't look at the problem. They look at the PERSON (Low income class).
Your closing paragraph sums it up. You don't understand. I don't understand either. I am not a LGBT person. But I do know being an LGBT person is NOT a "belief" system. It is PHYSICAL REALITY. They do not "believe" they are "trapped in the wrong body," (cliche), they are physically the wrong gender for their mind.
The Intersex issue is completely separate from Gender Dysphoria, as that (IS) is a medically physical condition.
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SSG Robert Webster
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - Excuse me, how can you make the statement that it is not a belief system, if you are not one, nor understand it?
Also, you can not claim that I do not understand, because you do not know my circumstances. Believe me, I do understand more than you can every know, but I will tell you. I have dealt with it on a personal one on one basis probably for longer than you have been alive considering that I have a child that is LGBT. I believe that I do understand.
There is one issue with your "physical reality" argument, and that is how is it physical? There is a major flaw in that argument, there is no clinical evidence of this supposed factoid for the greatest share of individuals that claim this.
There is a "mental reality", but then that implies that it is a belief and not a physical condition.
All clinically proven instances of this particular issue have proven to be individuals that were born intersex, ambiguously defined genitalia, or hermaphrodite; and that is a physical condition that can be proven. Oh, I forgot, there is actually another test and that would be chromosome testing, and with that it has been proven to be extremely rare condition.
Believe me, I have studied this quite thoroughly because I wanted to know why my child was the way they were.
Also, you can not claim that I do not understand, because you do not know my circumstances. Believe me, I do understand more than you can every know, but I will tell you. I have dealt with it on a personal one on one basis probably for longer than you have been alive considering that I have a child that is LGBT. I believe that I do understand.
There is one issue with your "physical reality" argument, and that is how is it physical? There is a major flaw in that argument, there is no clinical evidence of this supposed factoid for the greatest share of individuals that claim this.
There is a "mental reality", but then that implies that it is a belief and not a physical condition.
All clinically proven instances of this particular issue have proven to be individuals that were born intersex, ambiguously defined genitalia, or hermaphrodite; and that is a physical condition that can be proven. Oh, I forgot, there is actually another test and that would be chromosome testing, and with that it has been proven to be extremely rare condition.
Believe me, I have studied this quite thoroughly because I wanted to know why my child was the way they were.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
SSG Robert Webster - Because it doesn't meet the definition of belief system:
"faith based on a series of beliefs but not formalized into a religion; also, a fixed coherent set of beliefs prevalent in a community or society"
It has nothing to do with FAITH.
There is huge debate as to whether it is environmental, genetic, nature/nurture, etc, but "faith" is not at play here. The fact that you could "research" or "study" why your child is the way they are, shows it is based in reality (science within the Physical realm). It is TESTABLE within the real world. FAITH is not. That's the definition of FAITH.
"faith based on a series of beliefs but not formalized into a religion; also, a fixed coherent set of beliefs prevalent in a community or society"
It has nothing to do with FAITH.
There is huge debate as to whether it is environmental, genetic, nature/nurture, etc, but "faith" is not at play here. The fact that you could "research" or "study" why your child is the way they are, shows it is based in reality (science within the Physical realm). It is TESTABLE within the real world. FAITH is not. That's the definition of FAITH.
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SSG Robert Webster
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - I never categorized this in a religious connotation. This is what I stated - " For most of these individuals, it is a belief and not a physical reality; or in other words, are any of the individuals making a claim through the VA either a intersex or a hermaphrodite?"
The word "belief" can be used for other things other than referring to religion. Let's just start with the basic definition of the word:
be·lief (/bəˈlēf/)(noun)
noun: belief; plural noun: beliefs
1. an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
•something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
synonyms: opinion, view, conviction, judgment, thinking, way of thinking, idea, impression, theory, conclusion, notion
•a religious conviction.
synonyms: ideology, principle, ethic, tenet, canon; More
doctrine, teaching, dogma, article of faith, creed, credo
2. trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
synonyms: faith, trust, reliance, confidence, credence
Next, let's go to a poor source but in this case it is relevant Wikipedia. Here is what it says:
Belief is the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case, with or without there being empirical evidence to prove that something is the case with factual certainty. Another way of defining belief sees it as a mental representation of an attitude positively oriented towards the likelihood of something being true.[1] In the context of Ancient Greek thought, two related concepts were identified with regards to the concept of belief: pistis and doxa. Simplified, we may say that pistis refers to "trust" and "confidence", while doxa refers to "opinion" and "acceptance". The English word "orthodoxy" derives from doxa. Jonathan Leicester suggests that belief has the purpose of guiding action rather than indicating truth.[2]
In epistemology, philosophers use the term "belief" to refer to personal attitudes associated with true or false ideas and concepts. However, "belief" does not require active introspection and circumspection. For example, we never ponder whether or not the sun will rise. We simply assume the sun will rise. Since "belief" is an important aspect of mundane life, according to Eric Schwitzgebel in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, a related question asks: "how a physical organism can have beliefs?"[3]
And I know all about the HUGE debate, if you had noticed, I had already referenced that in my statements. The one thing that stands out about the huge debate is the coherent ability to find a physical factor leading to this lifestyle. I have already stated the actual known physical reasons for certain individuals. What is also of importance to note, is the inability of science to proof anything once an individual starts hormonal and/or drug therapy, since those actions in and of themselves invalidate physical test results proofing a cause.
The word "belief" can be used for other things other than referring to religion. Let's just start with the basic definition of the word:
be·lief (/bəˈlēf/)(noun)
noun: belief; plural noun: beliefs
1. an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
•something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
synonyms: opinion, view, conviction, judgment, thinking, way of thinking, idea, impression, theory, conclusion, notion
•a religious conviction.
synonyms: ideology, principle, ethic, tenet, canon; More
doctrine, teaching, dogma, article of faith, creed, credo
2. trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
synonyms: faith, trust, reliance, confidence, credence
Next, let's go to a poor source but in this case it is relevant Wikipedia. Here is what it says:
Belief is the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case, with or without there being empirical evidence to prove that something is the case with factual certainty. Another way of defining belief sees it as a mental representation of an attitude positively oriented towards the likelihood of something being true.[1] In the context of Ancient Greek thought, two related concepts were identified with regards to the concept of belief: pistis and doxa. Simplified, we may say that pistis refers to "trust" and "confidence", while doxa refers to "opinion" and "acceptance". The English word "orthodoxy" derives from doxa. Jonathan Leicester suggests that belief has the purpose of guiding action rather than indicating truth.[2]
In epistemology, philosophers use the term "belief" to refer to personal attitudes associated with true or false ideas and concepts. However, "belief" does not require active introspection and circumspection. For example, we never ponder whether or not the sun will rise. We simply assume the sun will rise. Since "belief" is an important aspect of mundane life, according to Eric Schwitzgebel in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, a related question asks: "how a physical organism can have beliefs?"[3]
And I know all about the HUGE debate, if you had noticed, I had already referenced that in my statements. The one thing that stands out about the huge debate is the coherent ability to find a physical factor leading to this lifestyle. I have already stated the actual known physical reasons for certain individuals. What is also of importance to note, is the inability of science to proof anything once an individual starts hormonal and/or drug therapy, since those actions in and of themselves invalidate physical test results proofing a cause.
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