Posted on May 12, 2016
West Point: Cadet photo was inappropriate, but not political
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When I first saw this picture, it reminded me of the 1968 Black Power salute, which in my opinion it was (and still is) a political statement. This salute was also used by the Black Panthers in the 60s and now by the Black Lives Matter movement.
West Point determined it's inappropriate but not a political. How would you handle this situation with the cadets involved?
West Point determined it's inappropriate but not a political. How would you handle this situation with the cadets involved?
West Point: Cadet photo was inappropriate, but not political
Posted from armytimes.comPosted in these groups: 
United States Military Academy (USMA West Point)
United States Military Academy (USMA West Point)
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3
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My point in posting these two pics is the fact that these cadets are not naïve and they all knew they were doing a political statement, which is a clear violation of Defense Department Directive 1344.10, which spells out the rules for service members engaging in political activities. Instead the photo was deemed a "spur of the moment" pose with the intent, as one cadet put it, to "showcase the awesome black women in our class."
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MAJ (Join to see)
How do you determine intent? Are you privy to additional information that the investigating officer and the Superindendent didn't see or consider? Did you even read the DoDI? If the cadets and the evidence shows this was a spur of the moment thing to "showcase the awesome black women" in their class, how do you argue against that?
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Maj (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) - I'll try to answer all of your questions.
Intent is obvious here hence no need to figure it out, read minds, nor do an "in-depth" investigation. I am not privy of any documents the Super has. I am simply going with what I've read in many news outlets, plus my common sense and expsrience im the military and life. Yes, I did read the DODI. I argue my point because, and if the article is correct, it seems that it was easier for the academy staff let it go than to enforce the standards, especially when it's a group of academy seniors doing silly stuff.
I am not seeking to chop heads off. I am, however, seeking out what we all think about it. I have laid out why I think this way but I don't know what, if any, punishment they received. However, if it was a group of white males say, doing the same exact thing, I think it would've been handled much more differently. It feels that white males are easier targets than minorities and women. I believe it was not a fair outcome.
Intent is obvious here hence no need to figure it out, read minds, nor do an "in-depth" investigation. I am not privy of any documents the Super has. I am simply going with what I've read in many news outlets, plus my common sense and expsrience im the military and life. Yes, I did read the DODI. I argue my point because, and if the article is correct, it seems that it was easier for the academy staff let it go than to enforce the standards, especially when it's a group of academy seniors doing silly stuff.
I am not seeking to chop heads off. I am, however, seeking out what we all think about it. I have laid out why I think this way but I don't know what, if any, punishment they received. However, if it was a group of white males say, doing the same exact thing, I think it would've been handled much more differently. It feels that white males are easier targets than minorities and women. I believe it was not a fair outcome.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Maj (Join to see) - Read the 15-6 investigation and the Supe's letter. Both are important parts of this discussion. Relying on secondary news sources and commentary really doesn't help one form an informed opinion.
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Whatever the intent was, it is clear that some of these Cadets did not want to participate in this photo. By reading the body language and whether their arms are fully extended and the looks on their faces makes that very clear. I would speculate that the Cadet with the most extended, slanted forward arm and the face full of defiance is the Cadet that arranged this photo. It appears there is some major peer pressure going on there.
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Maj (Join to see)
2LT Victor Porsenna - I agree with you in some sense but disagree with you in your statement when it seems you tried to downplay what is the real intent here with this picture, along with the pictures you posted.
It seems as though you are trying to downplay what these cadets did, which is a political gesture--Black Power fist above the head picture. I sensed that by you inserting pictures of other people (politicians) placing their fists above their heads, you were trying to downplay that other people do it. However, you are a military officer and, as such, I can assume that you are smart enough to differentiate between what these cadets did and what these politicians did. I think it's childish on your part to down play it by comparing what a group of cadets (almost half were black) which is obviously the same way the picture of the 1968 Olympics athletes did versus what politicians did as a symbol of victory or excitement. Way off, LT. Secondly, where I partially agree with you, yes, the Confederate Flag was the Battle Flag during the civil war denoting the Confederate States of America when they seceded in 1860-61 from the US. This flag, however, in my view, it's not a symbol of racism but a symbol of states' rights, which in this case the southern states pushed the government to allow them to retain slaves to pick their crops but the north didn't like it hence the reason for the southern states to secede. Living in Georgia myself for 2 years, when I saw the Confederate Flag, I didn't see it as a symbol of racism but as a symbol of southern pride...and I am Latino.
My point, LT, is the fact that this picture could be interpreted in many ways, just like the example I made with the Confederate flag, but it seems that the punishment they received is far less than what is should've been, and that if it had happened with the group of cadets showing southern pride, these would've received a harsher punishment. Not fair.
It seems as though you are trying to downplay what these cadets did, which is a political gesture--Black Power fist above the head picture. I sensed that by you inserting pictures of other people (politicians) placing their fists above their heads, you were trying to downplay that other people do it. However, you are a military officer and, as such, I can assume that you are smart enough to differentiate between what these cadets did and what these politicians did. I think it's childish on your part to down play it by comparing what a group of cadets (almost half were black) which is obviously the same way the picture of the 1968 Olympics athletes did versus what politicians did as a symbol of victory or excitement. Way off, LT. Secondly, where I partially agree with you, yes, the Confederate Flag was the Battle Flag during the civil war denoting the Confederate States of America when they seceded in 1860-61 from the US. This flag, however, in my view, it's not a symbol of racism but a symbol of states' rights, which in this case the southern states pushed the government to allow them to retain slaves to pick their crops but the north didn't like it hence the reason for the southern states to secede. Living in Georgia myself for 2 years, when I saw the Confederate Flag, I didn't see it as a symbol of racism but as a symbol of southern pride...and I am Latino.
My point, LT, is the fact that this picture could be interpreted in many ways, just like the example I made with the Confederate flag, but it seems that the punishment they received is far less than what is should've been, and that if it had happened with the group of cadets showing southern pride, these would've received a harsher punishment. Not fair.
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2LT Victor Porsenna
Sir, it may seem that I am trying to downplay it but I haven't said exactly how I feel about the situation so let me. I do not think that what they did is allowed under UCMJ. I also dont think that the ladies were portraying a political view, however as black females they need to realize that anything they do will almost always hold more scrutiny than some of their other peers and therefore to "not stir the pot" they should not have raised their fists. However everyone is making a bigger deal than it truly is. No one knows what these ladies were trying to say by putting their fist up but assume when see this picture they automatically assume that if black people do it, it means black power and anti white speech. I don't think that is the case. For you to be so certain just by looking at a picture is not giving them due process.
I will not touch the confederate flag issue, as that will be bringing us to another topic. But I believe that we would agree on more things in that topic than we disagree on.
I will not touch the confederate flag issue, as that will be bringing us to another topic. But I believe that we would agree on more things in that topic than we disagree on.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Maj (Join to see) - You do realize that "states' rights" is a euphemism for racism, do you not?
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MAJ (Join to see)
CSM (Join to see) that's an awful lot of interpretation. The full investigative report (ie, 15-6) is publically available, as is LTG Caslen's letter on this matter. No need for interpretation of this sort when the facts are readily available.
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