Posted on Mar 14, 2016
SSG(P) Airborne Instructor (Ai)
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Responses: 46
MAJ Jim Woods
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I know of many that DOR'd from Ranger School and were not affected by the decision.... of course that was during Vietnam when Company Grade Officers life expectancy was about the same as fruit flies....
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LTC Christopher Hills
LTC Christopher Hills
>1 y
LTC John Bush - MAJ Woods said DOR (dropped on request). Injuries are not DOR.
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LTC Christopher Hills
LTC Christopher Hills
>1 y
LTC John Bush - Additionally, ALL basic branch officers (except MI) are REQUIRED to have platoon leader and XO time to be branch qualified... without which, they can't make Captain or go to their advanced course. So, there is NO scenario in which going to schools will negatively impact their opportunity to lead. Rather, the point of schools is to better prepare them to lead (like ranger school) or fill a billet in a unit they are not currently qualified to fill (like Airborne or Air assault). In other words, taking a school after basic course does not impact opportunity for leadership time but rather reduces the amount of time they spend in an assistant staff billet before the advanced course. And quite frankly, other than a couple years of command, they have nothing BUT staff time in their captain and major years... so they are missing out on nothing by getting extra schools before going to a unit. Also, soldiers that volunteer to go beyond average tend to perform higher than soldiers who are happy with average. that was true in the army, in business and in life. I'd rather have a hard charging airborne Ranger leading my troops than someone unwilling to challenge themselves.
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LTC John Bush
LTC John Bush
>1 y
LTC Christopher Hills - point taken on DOR and the schools and rules have changed a lot since 1962 but it all worked out for me.
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CPT Bob Deissig
CPT Bob Deissig
>1 y
I successfully completed Ranger School, and after 6 months as a Platoon Leader I transferred to the 9th Infantry where I served as a platoon leader and company commander. Our AO was extremely active 68-69. I was there for almost 18 months, and we never lost a company grade officer. So I’m not sure of the veracity of the comment about having the life expectancy of a fruit fly.
Out officer cadre was phenomenal and included more officers that did not wear a Ranger Tab. Good leaders are good leaders. Ranger School gave a great deal of confidence that I could lead men in combat. Would I have been any less effective without it, don’t know.
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COL William Schafer (RET)
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Teammates, There isn't any official file documentation that shows you dropped from a school, such as Ranger School, kept in your records...other than your orders taking you to that school; orders taking you away from school and the lack of a graduation certificate. Lack of Motivation and other administrative records created at ranger School remain on file at the Ranger Training Brigade. That being said, is as already stated, it is against the Warrior Ethos and the Army Values to quit. So, if you quit you clearly have dug yourself a hole that will be hard to climb out of. The only way to do this is to work hard and convince you current leadership, peers and subordinates to help you out of that hole.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
>1 y
COL William Schafer (RET)
"Teammates, There isn't any official file documentation that shows you dropped from a school, such as Ranger School, kept in your records."
Sir, so your saying a rater would not commonly include a bullet on an OER referencing an officers failure to complete Ranger school? If find that difficult to understand.. Ranger School is billed as one of the Army's premiere leadership schools, an officer that drops for LOM would certainly qualify for a notation on there OER I would, hope..Unless there is policy or regulatory guidance that forbids it which i do not find.
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CPL Joseph Elinger
CPL Joseph Elinger
5 y
ALWAYS: Give it your best.
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LTC Christopher Hills
LTC Christopher Hills
>1 y
SGM Erik Marquez - Most officers that attend ranger school do so in the space of time after commissioning and before they arrive at their first tactical unit assignment. Officer basic course (BOLC), airborne, air assault, Ranger, etc. first. Become qualified and then go to an assignment. Think of it as the period of time that Enlisted attend Basic training, AIT and follow on courses (airborne, RIP, etc.). During that period of time, there is NO OER. You only get OER's when assigned to a unit. IF however, the officer got a billet for Ranger from their unit (it does happen but is unusual) and then dropped out, at least in my units and in my day, there would have been a note that the officer dropped out of a school (presuming not injured and physicalled out).
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CPT Earl George
CPT Earl George
>1 y
When I was in ROTC advanced course in 1970, I was given The ranger course swim survival test at my college,by Ranger qualified cadre assigned to the ROTC department. I assume this was because I was being offered an RA commission. to make a long story short, Ican't swim and I failed the test. Never got orders to Ranger school.
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1SG Operations Sergeant Major
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Infantry Officers that don't complete Ranger School end up low on the list to be a PL. Reason for that is Ranger School is the Army's premier leadership school. It shows to Commanders they can lead troops in austere conditions, or at least not quit in those conditions.
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CPT Ahmed Faried
CPT Ahmed Faried
8 y
MAJ (Join to see) - this is true Sir. Tabbed you pretty much are guaranteed a platoon, other option is being tactically just on fire.
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
COL (Join to see)
8 y
LTG Brown, the Commander of the Combined Arms Center...does not have a Ranger Tab. Infantry Officer. One of the best I've served with.
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MAJ Mark N.
MAJ Mark N.
8 y
On a similar note, the "tab" does mean something to most Infantry officers/NCO's . As a Field Artillery Officer, when I was attached to a INF/AR/CAV unit as a FSO, or arrived at a forward TOC/TAC, I noticed that when the grunt or treads noticed my tab, there was an uptick of respect - and they knew that I could speak their language. So, I think there are other benefits to the Ranger school graduation besides the small unit leadership aspects.
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LTC Robert Hodges
LTC Robert Hodges
5 y
as a retired LTC ( 8 active and 19 in USAR) Ranger school graduate while on active duty I can tell you that outside the military the value of Ranger school is simply the fact that you yourself know you can do and /or overcome any challenge in life , work related or not without any doubt. If you are lucky enough to work with those who served or who recognize what the Tab means you have immediate credibility.
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