Counterintelligence (CI) Agent
Counterintelligence (CI) Agent
Posted on Apr 12, 2021
Does enlisting with a college degree in 35M (Reserve/NG) and then attempting OCS, increase the chances of being selected as reserve MI 35A?
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I was advised by my recruiter to pursue this option. However, I want a second opinion. My intention is to work in the Military Intelligence Corps in the reserves/NG, ideally as an Officer. I have already spent two years in Officer Training with RMA Sandhurst in the UK (It did not count as military service). I understand that Intel is highly competitive at OCS and I am unwilling to risk being put into a non-intel branch at this time, so enlisting appears to be the most guaranteed route for acquiring a TS security clearance and Intel Field experience. Given my BA degree in Economics and International Relations (Most courses focused on counter-terrorism, military Intelligence and Strategy) with a GPA of 3.5, would the route recommended above be advisable?
P.S, I have also looked into 35L, but I recognize this is not an entry level job. Assuming I enlisted in 35M, completed the AIT (and DLI, if it is in my contract) and came in at E4, what is the procedure for reclassing to 35L and what would I be able to do to improve my chances? I find it hard to believe that 35M units would be willing to let soldiers reclass immediately after AIT.
If you have read this far, I appreciate it and will be very grateful for any responses even if it is to say 'that is a horrible idea'.
P.S, I have also looked into 35L, but I recognize this is not an entry level job. Assuming I enlisted in 35M, completed the AIT (and DLI, if it is in my contract) and came in at E4, what is the procedure for reclassing to 35L and what would I be able to do to improve my chances? I find it hard to believe that 35M units would be willing to let soldiers reclass immediately after AIT.
If you have read this far, I appreciate it and will be very grateful for any responses even if it is to say 'that is a horrible idea'.
35M: Human Intelligence Collector
35L: Counterintelligence (CI) Agent
Officer Candidate School (OCS) (Army)
Career Counselor
Career Advice
Edited 3 y ago
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 9
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No. As of right now, you need to compete for your branch if you're going active duty. You'll need to find a position in the Reserve or Guard to commission as an Intel officer as a guarantee
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John Marder
My apologies Sir, I should have clarified, I only intend to become a reserve/NG officer. So, having a reserve enlisted position will increase the chances of commissioning as a Reserve Intelligence Officer?
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Obviously the citizenship thing has to be met.
I literally did enlist 35F and tried for the path you lay out. It didn't really work. I'm a Quartermaster.
Things to note and some already mentioned:
1) US citizen
2) If you go active duty you are in competition for the MI branch (presuming there are vacancies at the time of your class graduation).
3) If you strive for the Reserves you can basically choose your branch based on the openings. The unit that sees you through your commission you will give you the slot. So you can seek out an MI slot. Now, these are also "competitive" because there are only so many openings, but the worst will happen is you put MI as your choice and you get bumped out by stronger competition. The major difference is you can still say NO to whatever else might be offered to you. In Active OCS you commit to the army in general and compete after you are already committed. So ironically, a former CIA analyst who goes Active Duty OCS that is last in his class is not going to get MI (I'm just say'n).
4) ENLISTING into USAR MI does not actually help you get an MI officer slot later on. I tried it. What it gets you is a TS clearance that checks the CLEARANCE requirement for a commission. When I initially tried there were 12 MI vacancies at CPT and below in my state. I failed. The second time around I counted the vacancies. There were over 200 QM vacancies in my state. BOOM. I was selected. Now... a peer soldier in my MI unit was selected for MI commission. But they were both 35M and 35L and spoke Russian. I was a 35F with an MBA.
**************
Here's where career strategy comes in:
I'm pretty certain I can go back to MI in the USAR next fiscal year. Oh irony............... See, from the outside MI is cool, awesome and sexy. So LT's are falling over themselves for it. After they have served their initial obligation they realize well, the Army is the Army where ever you are in the Army. So a good number of them simply walk away when they are new CPT's.
Meaning............. it's WAY WAY WAY easier to get into USAR MI as a CPT than from entry level 2LT.
Now, that said, I too am on the fence about it. There is a trajectory I'm now following that would require change of course, loss of inertia and have to get going again. Do I really want to do that? That's a whole other conversation.
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What is true regardless of your plan, is if you ENLIST!!!!!!!!!!! you will had YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!! to your officer timeline.
While I said I enlisted, I did so because of my age. Not as a strategy to become an MI officer. So my mentioned strategy to jump into USAR MI as a CPT still applies if you came in as an officer from another specializations, and it reduces your time line. Don't go thinking enlisting MI gives you a leg up on MI officer in the USAR. That is unless you are fluent in Chinese or Russian.
All you have to do to jump from one branch in the USAR to MI Officer as a CPT is be a responsible officer with respectable annual evaluations then approach an MI Battalion Commander and say you are interested in being a Company Commander of an RFX unit and they will make it happen. Then you're in MI as a CPT and carry as much seniority than where you just left since it's time in grade that matters, not time in MOS.
I literally did enlist 35F and tried for the path you lay out. It didn't really work. I'm a Quartermaster.
Things to note and some already mentioned:
1) US citizen
2) If you go active duty you are in competition for the MI branch (presuming there are vacancies at the time of your class graduation).
3) If you strive for the Reserves you can basically choose your branch based on the openings. The unit that sees you through your commission you will give you the slot. So you can seek out an MI slot. Now, these are also "competitive" because there are only so many openings, but the worst will happen is you put MI as your choice and you get bumped out by stronger competition. The major difference is you can still say NO to whatever else might be offered to you. In Active OCS you commit to the army in general and compete after you are already committed. So ironically, a former CIA analyst who goes Active Duty OCS that is last in his class is not going to get MI (I'm just say'n).
4) ENLISTING into USAR MI does not actually help you get an MI officer slot later on. I tried it. What it gets you is a TS clearance that checks the CLEARANCE requirement for a commission. When I initially tried there were 12 MI vacancies at CPT and below in my state. I failed. The second time around I counted the vacancies. There were over 200 QM vacancies in my state. BOOM. I was selected. Now... a peer soldier in my MI unit was selected for MI commission. But they were both 35M and 35L and spoke Russian. I was a 35F with an MBA.
**************
Here's where career strategy comes in:
I'm pretty certain I can go back to MI in the USAR next fiscal year. Oh irony............... See, from the outside MI is cool, awesome and sexy. So LT's are falling over themselves for it. After they have served their initial obligation they realize well, the Army is the Army where ever you are in the Army. So a good number of them simply walk away when they are new CPT's.
Meaning............. it's WAY WAY WAY easier to get into USAR MI as a CPT than from entry level 2LT.
Now, that said, I too am on the fence about it. There is a trajectory I'm now following that would require change of course, loss of inertia and have to get going again. Do I really want to do that? That's a whole other conversation.
****************
What is true regardless of your plan, is if you ENLIST!!!!!!!!!!! you will had YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!! to your officer timeline.
While I said I enlisted, I did so because of my age. Not as a strategy to become an MI officer. So my mentioned strategy to jump into USAR MI as a CPT still applies if you came in as an officer from another specializations, and it reduces your time line. Don't go thinking enlisting MI gives you a leg up on MI officer in the USAR. That is unless you are fluent in Chinese or Russian.
All you have to do to jump from one branch in the USAR to MI Officer as a CPT is be a responsible officer with respectable annual evaluations then approach an MI Battalion Commander and say you are interested in being a Company Commander of an RFX unit and they will make it happen. Then you're in MI as a CPT and carry as much seniority than where you just left since it's time in grade that matters, not time in MOS.
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John Marder
I am a US citizen (Born in US) with a US passport but I also hold a UK passport, however I recognize for that I will likely have to give up my UK passport.
At the moment I am not considering Active duty but if I did, I would only go in as an Officer.
I understand Federal jobs are extremely competitive and I am not solely limiting my options to that. Having studied the Intelligence Cycle In university, It is something I am genuinely interested in, even if I do not pursue it in a civilian career.
At the same time, there is an entire community of jobs that require clearances in both contractors and government. Although they technically can hire those without clearances, the likelihood is extremely low. I'm not expecting a miracle but having a TS is better than not having one.
At the moment I am not considering Active duty but if I did, I would only go in as an Officer.
I understand Federal jobs are extremely competitive and I am not solely limiting my options to that. Having studied the Intelligence Cycle In university, It is something I am genuinely interested in, even if I do not pursue it in a civilian career.
At the same time, there is an entire community of jobs that require clearances in both contractors and government. Although they technically can hire those without clearances, the likelihood is extremely low. I'm not expecting a miracle but having a TS is better than not having one.
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CPT (Join to see)
John Marder - So you will know if you can go Active Duty as an Officer. You will put in an OCS packet and get selected or not. What you wont know is if you land in Military Intelligence until you rank in OCS based on MI openings.
Now, an Active Duty commitment is less time in years than a Reserve commitment. EIGHT YEARS is the Reserve commitment which is 1/3 of an entire career of conflicts.
You never know how life is going to turn out. I'm referring to your comment of only going Active Duty if you are an Officer. I always wanted to serve and wear the uniform, but I didn't enlist until I was 38 years old (old enough to have retired if I just enlisted right out of high school).
At every window of opportunity my ego prevented me until it got to a point that if I didn't enlist I would never wear the uniform in any capacity. Had I just enlisted at 18 or even 28 (around 9/11) I'd have a full military career behind me, and in both instances windows to become an officer would present themselves (which I did anyway).
If you get offered a pathway to a commission even if it's not MI, you are still going to have a SECRET clearance. Someone in the military with a secret clearance is much closer to that candidate a prospective employer is looking for in a TS clearance.
Plus, an officer currently in the army anywhere is in a much stronger position to transfer to MI than someone trying to compete for a new 2LT position off the streets.
Finally, once you learn about your job in the military you might find making the effort to get to MI just not worth the effort.
I can see a worst case best case scenario where maybe you get a great civilian job with a TS/SCI clearance and then you have 5+ years of Army Reserve commitments dragging you down with 28 day training exercises out in the middle of the desert every year. It can happen if you are not careful.
Now, an Active Duty commitment is less time in years than a Reserve commitment. EIGHT YEARS is the Reserve commitment which is 1/3 of an entire career of conflicts.
You never know how life is going to turn out. I'm referring to your comment of only going Active Duty if you are an Officer. I always wanted to serve and wear the uniform, but I didn't enlist until I was 38 years old (old enough to have retired if I just enlisted right out of high school).
At every window of opportunity my ego prevented me until it got to a point that if I didn't enlist I would never wear the uniform in any capacity. Had I just enlisted at 18 or even 28 (around 9/11) I'd have a full military career behind me, and in both instances windows to become an officer would present themselves (which I did anyway).
If you get offered a pathway to a commission even if it's not MI, you are still going to have a SECRET clearance. Someone in the military with a secret clearance is much closer to that candidate a prospective employer is looking for in a TS clearance.
Plus, an officer currently in the army anywhere is in a much stronger position to transfer to MI than someone trying to compete for a new 2LT position off the streets.
Finally, once you learn about your job in the military you might find making the effort to get to MI just not worth the effort.
I can see a worst case best case scenario where maybe you get a great civilian job with a TS/SCI clearance and then you have 5+ years of Army Reserve commitments dragging you down with 28 day training exercises out in the middle of the desert every year. It can happen if you are not careful.
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CPT (Join to see)
John Marder - Additionally, your employer has to have the TS/SCI billet. What they are looking for in a candidate with a TS/SCI clearance is someone they absolutely know who can fill it. They still have to sponsor you and the government has to give them the slot.
With a SECRET clearance as an officer anywhere you pretty much convey to them a much reduced amount of risk toward getting a full TS/SCI.
I'm trying to convince you to simply roll the dice and take a Commission for the sake of a Commission wherever it lands you. Then figure it out from there.
Windows of opportunity in life for a military officer's commission are not very common, and it's not like just getting a job to put a roof over your head. It would be a shame to pass it up because you didn't get a path to MI, which ironically would result in the same personal and professional frustrations in life as any other job in life because at the end of the day, the military is just one giant bureaucratic mess.
With a SECRET clearance as an officer anywhere you pretty much convey to them a much reduced amount of risk toward getting a full TS/SCI.
I'm trying to convince you to simply roll the dice and take a Commission for the sake of a Commission wherever it lands you. Then figure it out from there.
Windows of opportunity in life for a military officer's commission are not very common, and it's not like just getting a job to put a roof over your head. It would be a shame to pass it up because you didn't get a path to MI, which ironically would result in the same personal and professional frustrations in life as any other job in life because at the end of the day, the military is just one giant bureaucratic mess.
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John Marder
I'll take some time to consider this. I have had more experience in officer positions. What is the general procedure/ conditions that must be met for transferring to MI once you have been placed in a unit?
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No. You're commissioning into the NG, you simply commission into an MI slot. NG is slot driven based on what's available to you within the range you're willing to drive.
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John Marder
Thank you, I wasn't aware the procedure was different for reserves. My recruited did not give any indication of that.
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