Climate Change
Climate Change
Posted on Sep 19, 2017
Climate change not as threatening to planet as previously thought, new research suggests
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I know we are impacting the climate. I am not an alarmist however. If this study is to be believed, we are not anywhere near what several thought we were. What are your thoughts?
Climate change not as threatening to planet as previously thought, new research suggests
Posted from telegraph.co.ukPosted in these groups: 
Climate Change
Climate Change
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 2
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I was trying to figure out if I was reading a science article or political opinion editorial?
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In other words, climate change is still real, humans are influencing it with pollution and carbon output, growth in renewable energy industry are helping, and the US was wrong for leaving the Paris agreement. And that in just the first couple of paragraphs. So yeah, I support the climate change is still a threat debate and how humanity needs to address as a long term issue with research and investment in technology, policies, and changes in attitudes.
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MAJ James Woods
Jeffrey Montgomery - Rising sea levels are documented. Melting ice caps are documented. Frequency and intensity of storms document; otherwise it's ignorant of us to refer to each of the latest hurricanes as a "100 year storm" if multiple category 4 and 5 storms in a short period of time is the normal. Oh and the bible isn't historical fact based; just the mere mentioning of the bible as your source of historical data tells me all I need to know about your position on science.
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Jeffrey Montgomery
[MAJ James Woods] - "Rising sea levels are documented. Melting ice caps are documented. Frequency and intensity of storms document;...."
Yes... Every DAY, TWICE a day, the sea rises, the sea goes low. It's called the tide.
Yes, every YEAR, the ice at the poles melts (roughly between March and October for the North, and between August and May for the South) because of this giant ball of burning gas in the sky that is seen 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for most of the year at the poles.
Frequency of storms? No. Go back to stories of the Native Americans, and they'll show that there have always been huge, wicked storms that will randomly spring up. Random, because they didn't have the weather channel to tell them to the minute when a storm was going to make landfall, how fast the wind was blowing, or how much rain to expect.
Intensity of storms? No. There have been hurricanes, tornadoes, tsunamis, droughts, thunderheads that stretch the length of the coast, etc. for as long as man has recorded history, and I'd guess far longer, before we had written, much less spoken, word with wich to pass it along.
"Multiple category 4 and 5" - Again, THERE WAS NO FUJITA CATEGORY SYSTEM UNTIL 1971! It was CREATED so we could classify the strength of the storms!
Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Category_5_Atlantic_hurricanes
Using records, they were able to recategorize some storms ... number of category 5 hurricanes in: (Only showing years with >1)
1932 - 2
1933 - 2
1961 - 2
2005 - 4
2007 - 2
2017 - 2
Looks like 2 each in 1932 and 33... that's 4 within two years. Then in 2005, we had 4. Betwen 1933 and 2005, there was only one year with multiple Category 5 storms. Where since 2005 have you seen more than 3 in a 2-year span?
How about time of formation?
No big record there either... here are the two earliest in the year, and I'd say you can kick out the first two as outliers...
Unnamed January 3, 1938
Unnamed January 4, 1951
Unnamed May 17, 1887
Unnamed May 26, 1908
Beryl May 26, 2012
So May 17th 1887 is what I'd say was the earliest storm not counting outliers... (same for latest.)
1887! Not 2017, 2016, 2015, ... Over 100 years ago!
Now that's Atlantic...
Pacific, the earliest Category 5 recorded is Patsy - September 6, 1959
The earliest in the year for one was June 25, 2010 (Celia)
On the wiki page for Category 4, it states "In the years between 1851 and 1900, thirteen Category 4 storms are known to have occurred in the Atlantic Ocean. These numbers are limited by the observation techniques used prior to the use of satellite imagery in the 1960s."
This does not mean there were not more - it means we wouldn't KNOW if there were more! We did not have the technology to know!
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Category_4_Atlantic_hurricanes)
I again say WE DO NOT HAVE THE DATA TO SAY WITH CERTAINTY THAT STORMS ARE INCREASING IN EITHER FREQUENCY OR INTENSITY! Let's wait 100 years, and compare notes then! Of course by then, we may have invented a way to stop these storms in their tracks, or control the weather! Would that then mean that there's no more hurricanes, or that we've beaten them?
You cannot take a few bits of data from here and there when information was spotty, compare them to a much later date when we have better technology and measuring techniques, and say "Well we only had 14 before 1900, and we've had 37 in the last 15 years, so the world is coming to an end!" We also can't take a few measurements over a 40 year period and base all of the future on those, since we don't know what was there BEFORE 40 years ago! (I'm talking about polar temperatures.) We've only been watching the ice at the poles a very short time... This year, the ice has INCREASED FAR BEYOND EXPECTATION! Was that because some city put in a few hundred solar panels for the library and town hall? Or was it because it's cyclic, and this is a period of ice building? I'd go for the latter... More believable.
And your remark: "Oh and the bible isn't historical fact based; just the mere mentioning of the bible as your source of historical data tells me all I need to know about your position on science."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/12-famous-scientists-on-the-possibility-of-god_us_56afa292e4b057d7d7c7a1e5
https://answersingenesis.org/creation-scientists/21-great-scientists-who-believed-the-bible/
http://www.pewforum.org/2009/11/05/scientists-and-belief/
http://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/christianity/galleries/famous-scientists-that-believe-in-god.aspx
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/index.html
https://www.gci.org/science/choose
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html
http://www.icr.org/article/bible-believing-scientists-past/
etc. etc. etc.
All talking about scientists who believe in the Bible "Despite" (or because of?) science.
How about some scientific facts found in the Bible long before we "discovered" them?
1) The earth free-floats in space (Job 26:7), affected only by gravity. While other sources declared the earth sat on the back of an elephant or turtle, or was held up by Atlas, the Bible alone states what we now know to be true – “He hangs the earth on nothing.”
2) Creation is made of particles, indiscernible to our eyes (Hebrews 11:3). Not until the 19th century was it discovered that all visible matter consists of invisible elements.
3) The Bible specifies the perfect dimensions for a stable water vessel (Genesis 6:15). Ship builders today are well aware that the ideal dimension for ship stability is a length six times that of the width. Keep in mind, God told Noah the ideal dimensions for the ark 4,500 years ago.
4) When dealing with disease, clothes and body should be washed under running water (Leviticus 15:13). For centuries people naively washed in standing water. Today we recognize the need to wash away germs with fresh water.
5) Sanitation industry birthed (Deuteronomy 23:12-13). Some 3,500 years ago God commanded His people to have a place outside the camp where they could relieve themselves. They were to each carry a shovel so that they could dig a hole (latrine) and cover their waste. Up until World War I, more soldiers died from disease than war because they did not isolate human waste.
6) Oceans contain springs (Job 38:16). The ocean is very deep. Almost all the ocean floor is in total darkness and the pressure there is enormous. It would have been impossible for Job to have explored the "springs of the sea." Until recently, it was thought that oceans were fed only by rivers and rain. Yet in the 1970s, with the help of deep diving research submarines that were constructed to withstand 6,000 pounds-per-square-inch pressure, oceanographers discovered springs on the ocean floors!
7) There are mountains on the bottom of the ocean floor (Jonah 2:5-6). Only in the last century have we discovered that there are towering mountains and deep trenches in the depths of the sea.
8) Blood is the source of life and health (Leviticus 17:11; 14). Up until 120 years ago, sick people were “bled” and many died as a result (e.g. George Washington). Today we know that healthy blood is necessary to bring life-giving nutrients to every cell in the body. God declared that “the life of the flesh is in the blood” long before science understood its function.
9) The Bible states that God created life according to kinds (Genesis 1:24). The fact that God distinguishes kinds, agrees with what scientists observe – namely that there are horizontal genetic boundaries beyond which life cannot vary. Life produces after its own kind. Dogs produce dogs, cats produce cats, roses produce roses. Never have we witnessed one kind changing into another kind as evolution supposes. There are truly natural limits to biological change.
and 10) The universe had a beginning (Genesis 1:1; Hebrews 1:10-12). Starting with the studies of Albert Einstein in the early 1900s and continuing today, science has confirmed the biblical view that the universe had a beginning. When the Bible was written most people believed the universe was eternal. Science has proven them wrong, but the Bible correct.
There are plenty more where those came from.
But go ahead and try to denigrate me for my faith... because you have no further argument, and cannot provide proof of what you've claimed as I have.
God believes in you - - why don't you believe in Him?
Yes... Every DAY, TWICE a day, the sea rises, the sea goes low. It's called the tide.
Yes, every YEAR, the ice at the poles melts (roughly between March and October for the North, and between August and May for the South) because of this giant ball of burning gas in the sky that is seen 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for most of the year at the poles.
Frequency of storms? No. Go back to stories of the Native Americans, and they'll show that there have always been huge, wicked storms that will randomly spring up. Random, because they didn't have the weather channel to tell them to the minute when a storm was going to make landfall, how fast the wind was blowing, or how much rain to expect.
Intensity of storms? No. There have been hurricanes, tornadoes, tsunamis, droughts, thunderheads that stretch the length of the coast, etc. for as long as man has recorded history, and I'd guess far longer, before we had written, much less spoken, word with wich to pass it along.
"Multiple category 4 and 5" - Again, THERE WAS NO FUJITA CATEGORY SYSTEM UNTIL 1971! It was CREATED so we could classify the strength of the storms!
Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Category_5_Atlantic_hurricanes
Using records, they were able to recategorize some storms ... number of category 5 hurricanes in: (Only showing years with >1)
1932 - 2
1933 - 2
1961 - 2
2005 - 4
2007 - 2
2017 - 2
Looks like 2 each in 1932 and 33... that's 4 within two years. Then in 2005, we had 4. Betwen 1933 and 2005, there was only one year with multiple Category 5 storms. Where since 2005 have you seen more than 3 in a 2-year span?
How about time of formation?
No big record there either... here are the two earliest in the year, and I'd say you can kick out the first two as outliers...
Unnamed January 3, 1938
Unnamed January 4, 1951
Unnamed May 17, 1887
Unnamed May 26, 1908
Beryl May 26, 2012
So May 17th 1887 is what I'd say was the earliest storm not counting outliers... (same for latest.)
1887! Not 2017, 2016, 2015, ... Over 100 years ago!
Now that's Atlantic...
Pacific, the earliest Category 5 recorded is Patsy - September 6, 1959
The earliest in the year for one was June 25, 2010 (Celia)
On the wiki page for Category 4, it states "In the years between 1851 and 1900, thirteen Category 4 storms are known to have occurred in the Atlantic Ocean. These numbers are limited by the observation techniques used prior to the use of satellite imagery in the 1960s."
This does not mean there were not more - it means we wouldn't KNOW if there were more! We did not have the technology to know!
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Category_4_Atlantic_hurricanes)
I again say WE DO NOT HAVE THE DATA TO SAY WITH CERTAINTY THAT STORMS ARE INCREASING IN EITHER FREQUENCY OR INTENSITY! Let's wait 100 years, and compare notes then! Of course by then, we may have invented a way to stop these storms in their tracks, or control the weather! Would that then mean that there's no more hurricanes, or that we've beaten them?
You cannot take a few bits of data from here and there when information was spotty, compare them to a much later date when we have better technology and measuring techniques, and say "Well we only had 14 before 1900, and we've had 37 in the last 15 years, so the world is coming to an end!" We also can't take a few measurements over a 40 year period and base all of the future on those, since we don't know what was there BEFORE 40 years ago! (I'm talking about polar temperatures.) We've only been watching the ice at the poles a very short time... This year, the ice has INCREASED FAR BEYOND EXPECTATION! Was that because some city put in a few hundred solar panels for the library and town hall? Or was it because it's cyclic, and this is a period of ice building? I'd go for the latter... More believable.
And your remark: "Oh and the bible isn't historical fact based; just the mere mentioning of the bible as your source of historical data tells me all I need to know about your position on science."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/12-famous-scientists-on-the-possibility-of-god_us_56afa292e4b057d7d7c7a1e5
https://answersingenesis.org/creation-scientists/21-great-scientists-who-believed-the-bible/
http://www.pewforum.org/2009/11/05/scientists-and-belief/
http://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/christianity/galleries/famous-scientists-that-believe-in-god.aspx
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/index.html
https://www.gci.org/science/choose
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html
http://www.icr.org/article/bible-believing-scientists-past/
etc. etc. etc.
All talking about scientists who believe in the Bible "Despite" (or because of?) science.
How about some scientific facts found in the Bible long before we "discovered" them?
1) The earth free-floats in space (Job 26:7), affected only by gravity. While other sources declared the earth sat on the back of an elephant or turtle, or was held up by Atlas, the Bible alone states what we now know to be true – “He hangs the earth on nothing.”
2) Creation is made of particles, indiscernible to our eyes (Hebrews 11:3). Not until the 19th century was it discovered that all visible matter consists of invisible elements.
3) The Bible specifies the perfect dimensions for a stable water vessel (Genesis 6:15). Ship builders today are well aware that the ideal dimension for ship stability is a length six times that of the width. Keep in mind, God told Noah the ideal dimensions for the ark 4,500 years ago.
4) When dealing with disease, clothes and body should be washed under running water (Leviticus 15:13). For centuries people naively washed in standing water. Today we recognize the need to wash away germs with fresh water.
5) Sanitation industry birthed (Deuteronomy 23:12-13). Some 3,500 years ago God commanded His people to have a place outside the camp where they could relieve themselves. They were to each carry a shovel so that they could dig a hole (latrine) and cover their waste. Up until World War I, more soldiers died from disease than war because they did not isolate human waste.
6) Oceans contain springs (Job 38:16). The ocean is very deep. Almost all the ocean floor is in total darkness and the pressure there is enormous. It would have been impossible for Job to have explored the "springs of the sea." Until recently, it was thought that oceans were fed only by rivers and rain. Yet in the 1970s, with the help of deep diving research submarines that were constructed to withstand 6,000 pounds-per-square-inch pressure, oceanographers discovered springs on the ocean floors!
7) There are mountains on the bottom of the ocean floor (Jonah 2:5-6). Only in the last century have we discovered that there are towering mountains and deep trenches in the depths of the sea.
8) Blood is the source of life and health (Leviticus 17:11; 14). Up until 120 years ago, sick people were “bled” and many died as a result (e.g. George Washington). Today we know that healthy blood is necessary to bring life-giving nutrients to every cell in the body. God declared that “the life of the flesh is in the blood” long before science understood its function.
9) The Bible states that God created life according to kinds (Genesis 1:24). The fact that God distinguishes kinds, agrees with what scientists observe – namely that there are horizontal genetic boundaries beyond which life cannot vary. Life produces after its own kind. Dogs produce dogs, cats produce cats, roses produce roses. Never have we witnessed one kind changing into another kind as evolution supposes. There are truly natural limits to biological change.
and 10) The universe had a beginning (Genesis 1:1; Hebrews 1:10-12). Starting with the studies of Albert Einstein in the early 1900s and continuing today, science has confirmed the biblical view that the universe had a beginning. When the Bible was written most people believed the universe was eternal. Science has proven them wrong, but the Bible correct.
There are plenty more where those came from.
But go ahead and try to denigrate me for my faith... because you have no further argument, and cannot provide proof of what you've claimed as I have.
God believes in you - - why don't you believe in Him?
List of Category 5 Atlantic hurricanes - Wikipedia
A total of 33 recorded tropical cyclones have reached Category5 strength on the Saffir–Simpson hurricane wind scale in the Atlantic Ocean north of the equator, the Caribbean Sea, and the Gulf of Mexico. Hurricanes of such intensity occur once every three years in this region on average.
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MAJ James Woods
Jeffrey Montgomery - Faith and Science can co-exist but the Bible isn't historical facts unless you really believe a man survived the inside of a whale and another man parted the sea to save his people. But if you accept the King James Version as historical text then we can say the same for the Jewish Torah and Islamic Quran and whatever the Hindus, Buddhists, and other religions use. By the way, there's been more than 2 category 4/5 storms in 2017 and there was a category 4 in 2016 but do go on. Oh and let me know when dinosaurs are finally revealed in one of the yet to be released chapters of the bible. We're done here. Thanks for the laugh.
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Jeffrey Montgomery
[MAJ James Woods] - First, the King James version of the Bible *includes* the Torah, which is the first five books. The other two books followers of Judaism use are the Nevi'im and the Ketuvim. These three make up the Old Testament.
Now a man could survive inside a whale - but the question is what KIND of whale did Jonah survive inside of? Whales take in sea water through a meshy membrane that filters out plankton, then they "spit it back out" after the plankton has been removed. A man could technically survive that if the whale were surfaced for an extended time and didn't completely fill the cavity with water.
As I was not present, I cannot say how much of the story is true.
Regarding the parting of the Red Sea, ...
https://www.discoveryworld.us/biblical-discoveries/discovered-red-sea-chariot-wheels/
we've found traces of the chariots and ... well; read this yourself.
It's not a myth.
As to dinosaurs, the Bible speaks of dragons and of giants.
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=dragon&qs_version=KJV
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=giants&qs_version=KJV
The word "dinosaur" is based on modern Latin "dinosaurus", which is made from two Greek words, "deinos" meaning ‘terrible’ and "sauros" meaning ‘lizard.’
The first books of the Bible predate both of these languages - they were originally written in Hebrew and Aramaic, and the New Testament in Greek. It'd be hard to find a word that didn't exist yet in a language that predated its existence.
And regarding the storms: Yes, there have been three... but that might be all we get. Since there was at least one time there were four, does that mean the storms are reducing in intensity? Or does it mean we just get three this year? AGAIN, you can't look at the data in the way you are doing so. If we had a number of years in a short time with three, four, even five Cat. 5 storms, I'd say that yes, they're increasing... but THAT IS NOT WHAT THE DATA SHOWS!
If a day in October hits 90 in New York, should I assume the same will happen every year? Or do I take that as an outlier?
If a day in Florida in August drops down to 38 overnight, do I assume the rest of the month will be similarly cool, or do I take that as an outlier?
You can't look at data that way - you have to look for trends.
There is no trend showing the storms getting worse. We have a high number of Cat. 5 storms this year compared to the average of 0-1. The most we've recorded thus far is 4 in one year. Have there been more? There could have been before we were able to see the entire world's weather... we don't know! You can't make a statement that it has never happened - only that we've never seen it happen.
If you have data showing otherwise, where is it? I've given you every opportunity to show me proof otherwise, and you're not giving it. I'm assuming this is because it doesn't exist... if it did, I'm SURE that the news would be full of that information.
Now a man could survive inside a whale - but the question is what KIND of whale did Jonah survive inside of? Whales take in sea water through a meshy membrane that filters out plankton, then they "spit it back out" after the plankton has been removed. A man could technically survive that if the whale were surfaced for an extended time and didn't completely fill the cavity with water.
As I was not present, I cannot say how much of the story is true.
Regarding the parting of the Red Sea, ...
https://www.discoveryworld.us/biblical-discoveries/discovered-red-sea-chariot-wheels/
we've found traces of the chariots and ... well; read this yourself.
It's not a myth.
As to dinosaurs, the Bible speaks of dragons and of giants.
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=dragon&qs_version=KJV
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=giants&qs_version=KJV
The word "dinosaur" is based on modern Latin "dinosaurus", which is made from two Greek words, "deinos" meaning ‘terrible’ and "sauros" meaning ‘lizard.’
The first books of the Bible predate both of these languages - they were originally written in Hebrew and Aramaic, and the New Testament in Greek. It'd be hard to find a word that didn't exist yet in a language that predated its existence.
And regarding the storms: Yes, there have been three... but that might be all we get. Since there was at least one time there were four, does that mean the storms are reducing in intensity? Or does it mean we just get three this year? AGAIN, you can't look at the data in the way you are doing so. If we had a number of years in a short time with three, four, even five Cat. 5 storms, I'd say that yes, they're increasing... but THAT IS NOT WHAT THE DATA SHOWS!
If a day in October hits 90 in New York, should I assume the same will happen every year? Or do I take that as an outlier?
If a day in Florida in August drops down to 38 overnight, do I assume the rest of the month will be similarly cool, or do I take that as an outlier?
You can't look at data that way - you have to look for trends.
There is no trend showing the storms getting worse. We have a high number of Cat. 5 storms this year compared to the average of 0-1. The most we've recorded thus far is 4 in one year. Have there been more? There could have been before we were able to see the entire world's weather... we don't know! You can't make a statement that it has never happened - only that we've never seen it happen.
If you have data showing otherwise, where is it? I've given you every opportunity to show me proof otherwise, and you're not giving it. I'm assuming this is because it doesn't exist... if it did, I'm SURE that the news would be full of that information.
Discovered: Red Sea Chariot Wheels!
Moses crossing the Red Sea on dry ground is not a myth! The Bible records that a huge number of Hebrew slaves escaped the wrath of Egypt through the parted waters of the Red Sea. The Bible
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