DD214
DD214
Posted on Sep 5, 2017
Can the VA downgrade an honorable discharge years later?
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I met a fellow vet who had an honorable on discharge but then got a letter several years latter saying that he got downgraded to a dishonor.
I am wondering if anyone else has heard of this happening. Marine has showed me his 214 and it says honorable, but they sent him a letter saying that now he was dishonorable, several years later (but not a new 214) and the VA has stopped his PTSD treatment. Seems like a good man struggling to keep his family afloat, and I want to help him here. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
I am wondering if anyone else has heard of this happening. Marine has showed me his 214 and it says honorable, but they sent him a letter saying that now he was dishonorable, several years later (but not a new 214) and the VA has stopped his PTSD treatment. Seems like a good man struggling to keep his family afloat, and I want to help him here. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
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DD214
DD214
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 14
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The VA can't downgrade any discharge. They can only say that a discharge is Honorable for VA purposes. Upon separation veterans are no longer subject to UCMJ and even when someone applies for an upgrade to their discharge the review board can't change it to something worse even if evidence supports that. If it were criminal in nature, they could face charges in a federal civilian court or a retiree could be called back to be tried by courts martial and then downgraded.
Any change in characterization of service comes from the branch of service and it will be on a DD215, not a letter. In theory, if there is a clerical error and a service member was supposed to receive an OTH, LTH, or BCD that could be amended, but it isn't truly changing the character of service. It is only correcting the clerical error.
If a veteran received any discharge other than Dishonorable, the VA can make a determination that the service is honorable for VA purposes, and could rescind that. I've never seen that happen.
I would also question "who" sent the letter.
Any change in characterization of service comes from the branch of service and it will be on a DD215, not a letter. In theory, if there is a clerical error and a service member was supposed to receive an OTH, LTH, or BCD that could be amended, but it isn't truly changing the character of service. It is only correcting the clerical error.
If a veteran received any discharge other than Dishonorable, the VA can make a determination that the service is honorable for VA purposes, and could rescind that. I've never seen that happen.
I would also question "who" sent the letter.
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SFC Andrew Miller
SGM Erik Marquez - The last sentence of my first paragraph I stated that retirees could be recalled and subject to courts martial. As for the SGT in question, he should have been tried in a civilian court based upon this precedence setting case from 1955 - https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/350/11/case.html
I don't know if he didn't get the right lawyer or something, but the Supreme Court stated that he did not fall under UCMJ any longer.
I don't know if he didn't get the right lawyer or something, but the Supreme Court stated that he did not fall under UCMJ any longer.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SFC Andrew Miller - You are still mistaken, Retired and receiving retirement funds are subject to UCMJ..period, no recall needed.
"Army Regulation 27-10, Military Justice, states “Retired members of a regular component of the Armed Forces who are entitled to pay are subject to the provisions of the UCMJ . "
Non retirees are subject to recall....
That is the point Im clarifying.. Retired is different then subject to recall
"Army Regulation 27-10, Military Justice, states “Retired members of a regular component of the Armed Forces who are entitled to pay are subject to the provisions of the UCMJ . "
Non retirees are subject to recall....
That is the point Im clarifying.. Retired is different then subject to recall
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SFC Andrew Miller
SGM Erik Marquez - You are correct in regards to retirees. I had only studied two cases before, both retirees were recalled to active duty. Having researched more extensively, there have been a relative few who have been tried by courts martial. Of the 12 I have now looked at, 4 were tried without being ordered to active duty and 8 were ordered to active duty prior to court martial. And while it is good that every branch has their own authority to operate within the confines of Title 10, the individual branch regulations vary for what and how they treat their retirees in that regard.
Dealing with character of service and discharges is a very small slice of my normal duties now, so I thank you for putting me on the path to additional knowledge.
Dealing with character of service and discharges is a very small slice of my normal duties now, so I thank you for putting me on the path to additional knowledge.
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Are you asking this:
"Can an honorable discharge be downgraded to dishonorable several years later?"
"Can an honorable discharge be downgraded to dishonorable several years later?"
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SGT Eric Knutson
Yes Sir, that is the initial point of my question, (First try to define the question, then seek answers / solutions) I have put him in touch with our DAV Chaplin / Advocate for him to start working his issue. This post is primarily for my learning and general fund of knowledge, so that I may be better able to help those around me when I can.
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I am willing to bet the individual has additional active duty after the DD214 he is showing and you are not seeing the bad paper. I have nine DD214s for different periods of service (fortunately they all are honorable). On some occasions the military will modify, downgrade, or even upgrade discharges but this is done by the military not the VA.
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SGT Eric Knutson
Yes Sir, I knew of modifications, but I had only ever heard of going up, never going down before, (at least not after several years, going down) as well as multiple 214's. I have handed him off to an Advocate with the DAV whom I am sure will get to the bottom of it for him. I am just trying to learn things here, so I have better and actual answers in the future.
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