Posted on Oct 16, 2016
PO1 Leading Petty Officer (Lpo)
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
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GySgt Kenneth Pepper
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It must be nipped in the bud quickly and without hesitation. Having had a few minutes to think about it, here goes....
PFC Shitbird and his team leader stand fast. All others fall out and carry on.

Have PFC Dipshit stand by while I ensure his team leader knows what my expectations are; "Instant obedience to lawful orders. Period. Any other answer is unacceptable. The fact that PFC Dipshit thinks it is okay to open his trap is a direct reflection of your leadership. Take a look at how you are leading and determine how this could happen."

To PFC Dipshit; "If you have decided to end your time in the military you have chosen a sure-fire method. If you do not comply with lawful orders, it will eventually end with you on a bus headed for home. But only after spending the next few weeks/months becoming the example of what not to do. If that is what you want, we will go there. If not, get your ass moving on what you were ordered to do."
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Cpl Fred Rose
Cpl Fred Rose
22 d
Without discipline there is no effective military organization, I wouldn't want to go into combat with this man.
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Sgt Steve Williams
Sgt Steve Williams
13 d
SGT Tony Shope - knocking the son of a bitch out might feel good but you are open to two big risks. 1) Major disciplinary problems for you. You can bet punching Dipshit was captured on multiple videos. 2) Dipshit accepts the invitation to fight and beats the crap out of you. Laying there bruised and bloody does not send the message you wanted.
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SGT Tony Shope
SGT Tony Shope
13 d
Sgt Steve Williams - The personal cell phone was just coming out in my time in service. And that's just the way it was when I was in 80's thru mid 90's
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Sgt Steve Williams
Sgt Steve Williams
13 d
SGT Tony Shope - I hear ya. I was 69 - 71. A personal phone was a pay phone with nobody nearby.
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CPL(P) UH-60 Helicopter Repairer
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Edited 3 y ago
Praise in public, punish in private. "You stand fast after formation." Give him a chance to explain insubordination. Mandatory counseling. If he is defiant in private after getting the chance then burn him. ART15. Sometimes people are defiant because something happened and they feel out of control so they try to take it wherever they can no matter how inappropriate. Sometimes a wife cheated or a parent died. Sometimes the hospital calls and congratulates you on having cancer. To outright burn a Joe without gathering the facts is irresponsible and we would want someone breathing down our neck to take that extra moment to consider what might be going on too. If it's nothing more than attitude and a shitty personality then by all means light that dead Christmas tree and know you probably saved lives downrange.
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MSgt Steven Harris
MSgt Steven Harris
1 mo
I was taught to be a leader you must be able to assess the situation quickly by knowing your troops experience level current state of professionalism and respect for authority and then take the appropriate action and some the older styles beat them into submission is not always the correct approach. However, my fellow leaders are also correct in sometimes it is necessary for the hard-ball approach with some troops because they lack the respect for the high standards of our military branches today! each person took an oath when they volunteered, not drafted as before in Vietnam War. We saw the problem that created! We can learn to adjust our techniques as the situations and people. However I agree that our jobs as NCO's in charge of troops is to weed-out the bad candidates and keep the right ones who have the right attitudes towards the rules and protocols and will follow orders out respect. Respect is not always earned in our military but is given by higher authorities for other reasons than experience and years of dedication and development of proficiency and leadership skills in their areas of assigned expertise! But that is the truth of how some promotion systems are. The ideal and reality will eventually point out who are the best at what they do! My TI's in bascic showed that had 2 sides of a professional and could switch it on and off as needed for training purposes or real world personal issues with us! I as another airman out of college and with a family respected them for that and understood why!
Some NCOs in my squadrons, would say I am not a baby sitter, I don't have time for this! I said, as their peers or supervisor-- Yes, You are Sgt and if you do not recognize that then you missed part of the oath and list of NCO responsibilities, you took to receive those stripes and star!
The young troops are like "babes" and young children in a new environment and new greater expectations placed on them than ever in their lives and some do not know how to properly behave and will cause trouble to get the attention they need. Others are spoiled and need to be disciplined accordingly to the regulations, when othermilder actions do not work. I have taken many leadership courses in my career and placing oneself in a subordinates shoes is helpful to finding the real problem and helping that person to fix it. In basic training, the hard ball kick your ass is necessary.

But after they enter their real careers then they are one of our own and need to know that we are there to support them and guide them through the difficult times of adjustment and personal issues. because it all makes a difference how they perform thir duties each day. We are truly as brothers and sisters in arms, only ones who can understand what they are going through! I call it walking in the shoes of our predecessors, whom we hold respect and honor by being our best! Some forget that truth and reality!
That is the type of relationship that will enable a person to push their bodies, hearts, and minds to the limits and even willingly die for their nation and fellow soldiers! Isn't that the true goal and objective of it all! Politicians have interfered allot with our roles and resources, but never will stop true warriors from rising to the challenges and victory! So it takes some adjustments in a professional world of warriors. So what, to be the best of best, as we call "ourselves' in the military branches! Then we MUST be ready and trained to make the critical personal changes and discard the old ways to bring in the Better and MORE EFFECTIVE and HIGHER QUALITY in life and our beloved professions. It is not just a job but a lifestyle and membership to elite societies & missions, that few can belong! If you don't love it, you won't be your best, no matter what a superior orders you to do! Would you die or get shot for someone you did not love? In Gung Fu class, we had visualization drill, you imagine you beloved spouse or child is held at knife or gun point by a enemy. You are only person to save them. What do you do? Then you come out fighting! This is a warrior's mentality in combat and any conflict and true reason for all the training and education. not money or pins on our uniforms or certificates in folders. you do it for love of people, nation, flag, defend and protect US laws & US Constitution, and all its rights and benefits and support all who support those things. Fight against those who seek to take it away from us! For that any of us who wore the uniforms would pay the ultimate prices! Those who hate will never understand why we do it!

More than that is the mission to pass down that SPECIAL LOVE & RESPECT that MANY NOT ALL have for our military positions to go fight together and come home alive to our families for a job well done! Maybe my ideas and approaches seem strange to the old guard but our goals are similar! The Wars and type of fighting today's enemies are far different and so are the needs of our soldiers and level of responsibilities and the intelligence and disciplines required to operate our technology not just a rifle or security patrol are different than anything before. So the systems used prior were good for their times but to be a leader of people and make the right decisions, you must be willing and able to adjust to your environments and new situations in a moments notice.

We managers and supervisors need to know how to talk to a stressed out or emotionally disturbed troop to help them deal with these great new pressures that marching and exercises in formation and academic classes do not! I have studied human behavior all my life and one fact is clear, the same approach does not work for everyone, but everyone needs help in their early stages of development and along the way in our military operations and so the training of our managers must incorporate human counseling skills and attitudes that produce independent thinkers & wise decision makers as they dedicate their lives out of desire and respect for all the good, which we in those uniforms represent in our nation. We must be able to show the mindset and professional mature attitudes and self-control required to protect and defend their fellow soldiers from real, deadly, hateful, highly skilled enemies, that may need to die at their hands and from their developed skills as well as our own! This is our unique calling to arms and as great warriors and master teachers & counselors to execute for great success in our unique profession. We shape the future by what we think and do, but also how we correct the wrongs in our processes and systems!
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Amn Meryl Hickman
Amn Meryl Hickman
25 d
give him transfer orders to MSgt Steven Harris's platoon
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SFC Charlie Broadus II
SFC Charlie Broadus II
24 d
I don't care what's wrong, if you have a problem pull me aside and talk to me you WILL NOT be disrespectful to me and especially in front of everyone in formation I will smoke your ass on the spot
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SPC Chris Ison
SPC Chris Ison
22 d
SP5 Leo Fitz - NCOs do not issue direct orders, they issue lawful orders. Only commissioned officers issue direct orders.
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PO1 David Gibbens
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I can speak from experience on this one. On my first boat( yes I'm a submariner) as an E3 I was made Deck Div LPO, AKA Leading Seaman. While passing out the day's job assignments, I was told "f@#k no" by one of the new seaman. I was shocked to say the least. I went to the 1st LT, a TMCS, and informed him of my situation. He told me in no uncertain terms to take said individual to the back of the work barge and show him the error of his ways. I did so, physically. The young man never questioned me again.
Now, before everyone jumps on me, let me give you my opinion on this matter. This was the late '70s. We were still in the Viet Nam mind set. However; when did the military go from being a gung ho military organization to a job? "Ask him what's wrong". Really?! When you're at 400ft and there's a fire in the Torpedo Room, or you're someplace where people are shooting at you are you really going to take no as an answer?? Or are you going to kick him in his ass, and get him motivated to move in the right direction? I spent 20 years in the Submarine Force and I've seen people come and go. And the ones that went were sent haze gray and underway on surface ships. Which, BTW, was the same as failing. Next time someone tells a senior NCO he doesn't want to do something, point out that the contract he signed doesn't say anything about liking it. He (or she) doesn't have to like it. They just have to do it. STS1(SS) USN, Ret
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SGT Randall Smith
SGT Randall Smith
1 mo
Sgt Forel: I was there a little before you. We had to make sure our men could come and talk to us about problems but we would put up with no crap from them. I never ask one of my guys if they wanted to pull guard, run with a convoy or fill sandbags. If they did not like the job given to them they had a choice, Run into the jungle and hide or go to LBJ for R&R for a couple of months. Everyone had a weapon so you had to let them know you were boss and not afraid of them.
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SrA Lisa Hunt
SrA Lisa Hunt
29 d
You asked when did it stop...it stopped when Americans got tired of military suicides. We are still at 22/day. Everything has changed for good. We instill pride & loyalty through compassion & common-fucking-sense, not barbaric hazing & corporal punishment. We learned. We grew. We still have a long way to go. And working with broken people is what you get, because that's our last option for an escape, especially at the age of 18. Discipline with focus in no uncertain terms with fair consequences and an open door to get-the-hell-out if you can't handle it, will keep those destined for military greatness & good mental health upon discharge. If you don't understand the difference between a proud, strong military force & a buncha tin soliers, you don't belong in today's military.
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Amn Meryl Hickman
Amn Meryl Hickman
25 d
I asked my Dad why he was getting out of the Army? He spent 26 yrs in so why now? He told me that he didn't like the changes that were being made as far as discipline goes. He said " you used to be able to take off your stripes and go at it, now you have to counsel them". This was 69. When I joined the Air Force in 76 it was made known that I would do as told no matter what. My feelings no longer mattered. There are ways to convey your opinion AFTER the job was completed. If I had acted the same way this scenario happened, I would have been kicked out immediately even in the 80's with no questions asked!!!
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SPC Chris Ison
SPC Chris Ison
22 d
The Navy still used wall to wall counseling even in the 1990's.

That is how we got shit done. AS Leading Airmen of the line division, i never had to resort to physical reinforcement. But i came close once to a guy who thought he was tough shit for wrestling at Oklahoma state. It was me, and a few of my buddies, who took him out behind the connexes. We explained "You might be able to take us one on one, but we are not going to let it get to that point."

What most people do not get about the navy, is our life is the same no matter whether we are at war or not; As such we don't have time to coddle.
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