Discipline
Discipline
Posted on Dec 13, 2014
What do you think of a Soldier who won't salute the flag?
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Is this 'soldier' a candidate for counseling or would what we used to call "EMI" (Extra Military Instruction) be in order? Older members will know what I mean by EMI......basically it was s**t work designed to indicate extreme displeasure on the part of NCO's without resorting to documented disciplinary actions. How far would you go in correcting this soldiers behavior? Or would you simply write her off as a loss?
*NOTE* This post is a couple of years old, but I believe the question still has relevance. It begs the examination of the principles of personal responsibility and the responsibility of leadership in guiding the behavior of those under 'your' command. I will say that I have learned more from the responses than I did from the subject itself. I'm hoping that the discussion has helped others in active leadership roles to formulate effective and appropriate responses or better still preventive examples that will make sure this type of behavior isn't repeated. God Bless the USA!
*NOTE* This post is a couple of years old, but I believe the question still has relevance. It begs the examination of the principles of personal responsibility and the responsibility of leadership in guiding the behavior of those under 'your' command. I will say that I have learned more from the responses than I did from the subject itself. I'm hoping that the discussion has helped others in active leadership roles to formulate effective and appropriate responses or better still preventive examples that will make sure this type of behavior isn't repeated. God Bless the USA!
Posted in these groups: 
Discipline
Saluting
Discipline Saluting
Edited 7 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 257
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It's one thing to absently mindedly fail to salute the flag, it's quite another to intentionally ignore it and then post pictures of yourself flaunting it. I guess the Drill Sergeant in me would be to admonish the offender, and explain the history behind saluting the flag. Attempt to instill a sense of pride in wearing the uniform and representing the best America has to offer. I don't think it's any different today than when I was in the Army. There are people serving that are doing it because they want the college benefits, or they want a warm place to sleep, but they are not committed to our thing. In her case, if I were her 1st Sgt, I'd have given her and administrative Article 15 (I don't know if they can still do that) and punished her with some extra duty and a trip to the base flag pole at every raising and lowering for a month.
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PO2 Roger O'Day
Cpl Davis,
Pick and choose?
Let’s just end in disagreement.
You think kneeling or avoiding a simple salute is not disrespectful.
I think it is.
She made herself the example.
Pick and choose?
Let’s just end in disagreement.
You think kneeling or avoiding a simple salute is not disrespectful.
I think it is.
She made herself the example.
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Cpl Milton Davis
PO2 Roger O'Day what im saying is...kneeling isnt disrespectful...what i hear is ppl calling it disrespectful because they dont agree wit why someone is kneeling, so they divert to excuses...now in this case, I've beared witness to many dodging colors for various reasons.. posting it wasnt smart...but its not something to make such a big fuss about...are we defenders of freedoms or our own ideal of freedom, which today looks like we are only free to do & be what others want?
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Cpl Milton Davis
CPO Paul Klein the only thing disrespectful or unnecessary about my comment is the fact that you dont agree with it, which futher proves my point....lmao
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MAJ Frederick Myers
Back to the original question:
"What do I think of a soldier who won't salute the flag?"
Answer: Not much. And I'd tell her so. Whether she wanted to hear it or not; she can shove the "don't comment if . . . " BS right up her fourth point of contact.
If I had her face to face, I'd tell her so to her face, and that I hoped that someday she has a change of heart and decides to actually be a soldier instead of simply wear one's uniform.
If she was in my unit, I'd tell her that her feelings about the issue are immaterial; if I catch her shamming out on our flag, she's going to be able to write a detailed essay about her Article 15. And further, that as long as she continues to act like a shit-eating civilian, I'll treat her as a shit-eating civilian.
"What do I think of a soldier who won't salute the flag?"
Answer: Not much. And I'd tell her so. Whether she wanted to hear it or not; she can shove the "don't comment if . . . " BS right up her fourth point of contact.
If I had her face to face, I'd tell her so to her face, and that I hoped that someday she has a change of heart and decides to actually be a soldier instead of simply wear one's uniform.
If she was in my unit, I'd tell her that her feelings about the issue are immaterial; if I catch her shamming out on our flag, she's going to be able to write a detailed essay about her Article 15. And further, that as long as she continues to act like a shit-eating civilian, I'll treat her as a shit-eating civilian.
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PO3 John Jeter, the flag represents the country in the oath that she swore to defend. If she doesn't want to even salute the flag, how in the world are her feelings of disdain displayed in other more important aspects of her job? I'd consider separating her from the service.
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PO3 (Join to see)
I agree it is disrespectful to find a out so you don't have to salute for Colors, but that is not grounds for even a consideration for separation you can talk about "poor dissuasion making" but it is not grounds for sep... To say that you would considerate is asinine due to considering it means you want them out therefore saying you would separate them... She showed disrespect, should be consoled for it, taught a lesson in respect, but not lose her job
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A1C Randy Clark
PO3 (Join to see) - I disagree with your assessment. If this soldier is willing to blatantly disrespect the flag in this manner it tells you a lot about her character, her integrity, her willingness to follow the rules/orders. When things get really tough and you have to depend on these attributes where will you be? Where will the folks that may depend on her be? I think this type of behavior requires swift and harsh actions, which may include separation. I would hope that with some intense behavior correction techniques she could be salvaged as a respectable soldier. There is a great deal of blood, sweat, and money that goes into the making of every good soldier.
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1SG Frank Boynton
Anyone serve at Ft. Carson, Co. in the early 70's? I was with the 6/32 Armor Battalion. That could be me in that picture. I can't tell you how many times I did the exact same thing in the motor pool. MEMORIES - I love 'em.
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