Ethics
Ethics
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An excellent article from JAG perspective, on PTSD and the moral injuries that can be brought onto anyone in combat.
No Legal Objection, Per Se - War on the Rocks
Posted from warontherocks.com
PTSD
Morals
Ethics
Law
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 3
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Waiting to see my VA dentist at an Oregon VA I sat waiting next to a national guard soldier. He was angry because the VA rejected his claimed PTSD stressor. His stressor was driving the buss full of national guardsmen to the airport on their way to Iraq. Some were killed and some were injured! My take without prejudice is maybe he did have PTSD and this was his stressor? Different strokes for different folks! Who am I to judge? Let me give a name of a man who I think was a hero. His name was Major John Mize. John was a B 52 pilot whose plane was so damaged in the Christmas Hanoi run he almost crashed.; limping back to Thailand, and a crash landing. In my opinion John died too too young. I am sure it was the stress of flying combat missions.
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Cpl Archie H.
I do not disagree. But I am not sure where this stressor would happen? Enlighten me i am interested if you would. PO2 Joseph Chantiny
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PO2 Joseph Chantiny
Cpl Archie H. - Happily: My best friend, who was a Sonar Tech., reported having nightmares and panic attacks, which are hallmark symptoms of PTSD. For myself, I used to have dreams about reactor start ups, ship's fires and torpedo exercises. A few years ago I started having panic attacks-just flying and going through airport checkpoints wasn't making it any easier.
I've seen things that I can't talk about-and burying those things gradually eats away at your soul-the stress of being away from home, and potentially never coming back is enough stress for anyone-unless you have some deep seated desire to "disappear".
I've seen things that I can't talk about-and burying those things gradually eats away at your soul-the stress of being away from home, and potentially never coming back is enough stress for anyone-unless you have some deep seated desire to "disappear".
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Cpl Archie H.
I can only imagine the stress. I see what you are saying. I always had faith in Navy medicine. So many issues we as Americans need to learn and understand. I hope the Navy is understanding. If I think deeply about what I have seen I can get pissed. I was in the hospital with a Navy Corpsman.When he was with the Marine grunts he was shot several times taking most of his sexual organs away.yet only recently has the government been serious enough to do reconstructive medicine. This after 50 years. My prayers for you and thank you for keeping our nation safe! PO2 Joseph Chantiny
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PO2 Joseph Chantiny
Cpl Archie H. - I have no problem sharing my experiences, but only a fellow sailor or solider could understand such things. My prayers go to you as well...like I told my brother when he went to Iraq, "keep your head down...."
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Outstanding article. This passage jumped out:
"No body of law, however, can comprehensively codify all that honor demands. A lawful action represents a necessary, but not sufficient, stop on that unpaved road. So, integrity fills the potholes. It requires us to act legally and honorably under all circumstances, and underpins the mandate to exercise moral courage, to choose the hard right over the easy wrong without concern for personal or professional consequences."
"No body of law, however, can comprehensively codify all that honor demands. A lawful action represents a necessary, but not sufficient, stop on that unpaved road. So, integrity fills the potholes. It requires us to act legally and honorably under all circumstances, and underpins the mandate to exercise moral courage, to choose the hard right over the easy wrong without concern for personal or professional consequences."
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Col Joseph Lenertz
Yes, exactly. The moral, honorable requirements for war (if we claim to be the 'good guys") go beyond law. It is the primary reason I continue to fight against the use of Artificial Intelligence/Machine Learning (AI/ML) in making lethal decisions at the operational level of war.
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MSgt Steve Sweeney
Col Joseph Lenertz - Can AI have "honor"? It is an interesting question, though the decision, as mentioned in the article, would still fall on the commander. The author eloquently discusses the pressures and stimuli from his immediate surroundings while being pressured to make a split-second moral decision. It may be in this context where AI has some value; able to quickly assess the broad scope of law, legal decisions, and consequences from similar actions and provide an assessment - recommendation that is not influenced by the stimuli of the emotional "heat" and immediate surroundings. A recommendation, but not a decision.
I am considering this passage: "The pressure generated by the morass of seething anger, hostility, and vengeance and by the demand for quick judgment mixes with the pressure generated by the very gravity of the question being asked. And, as this volatile mixture swirls, time collapses, making the seconds feel like hours as 40 eyes glare. I’m running on autopilot, the result of too little sleep, too much caffeine. My heart races, my eyes expand ever wider, screens lining the wall flash, the air fills with an underwater cacophony of ringing phones and static punctuated by intermittent radio chatter and the murmur of disembodied voices and the click of a pocket knife repeatedly, and unnervingly, flicked open and closed, open and closed, open and closed. I can hardly think over the silent din and pounding in my ears."
I am considering this passage: "The pressure generated by the morass of seething anger, hostility, and vengeance and by the demand for quick judgment mixes with the pressure generated by the very gravity of the question being asked. And, as this volatile mixture swirls, time collapses, making the seconds feel like hours as 40 eyes glare. I’m running on autopilot, the result of too little sleep, too much caffeine. My heart races, my eyes expand ever wider, screens lining the wall flash, the air fills with an underwater cacophony of ringing phones and static punctuated by intermittent radio chatter and the murmur of disembodied voices and the click of a pocket knife repeatedly, and unnervingly, flicked open and closed, open and closed, open and closed. I can hardly think over the silent din and pounding in my ears."
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I knew a big Infantry Buck Seargant who befriended an Afghan boy. Perhaps he was perhaps 10 years old. Every day the boy would talk to the Seargant at the front gate. The first day the unit was replaced, a new soldier guarding the gate saw the boy and mowed him in half with an M60. The Seargant watched this transpire. He beat the ever living shit out of the soldier guarding the gate. He was in therapy for months before he was medically chaptered. He made no improvements. I was quite sad for him. There is a good chance his spirit would never be fixed. It is really heart breaking.
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