Fitness
Fitness
Posted on Sep 4, 2014
At what rank should Soldiers be exempt from organized PT?
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Fitness Physical Training
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MAJ (Join to see)
None... The higher up in the leadership you get the more important it becomes to set the example. Never ask a soldier what you yourself are not willing to do.
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PFC Kim Howard
None. Every rank must be up to any physical challenge. Max your PT test and then we have something to discuss. I was a private who did just that. Maxed my PT test every time, guess what, NO daily PT for me. What does rank have to do with the physical standards? Where does this nonsense come from? We seriously need a new topic.
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(Join to see)
While in AFG with the AF777 there were some Sergeants that I would have FIRED, they were so out of shape !
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SPC William Baker
PO2 Doc Blake - unless you have had 6 spine surgery's and 12 others. Wish I could! William
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I responded to CPT Aaron Kletzing, and I have seen many of the same comments from multiple people: NONE!!
This is from my vantage point and what I've seen. Take it for what it's worth and keep an open mind.
The last time a leader is personally responsible for organized unit level PT is at the Company level (1SG and CPT). There are some instances of a MAJ being in charge of a Company, but I'll lump them in with the CPT's. That's the last time unit training management and the conduct of a physical training plan is squarely on your shoulders. You MUST conduct PT with your unit in order to execute and evaluate the plan that you have in place and adjust it as necessary to meet the goals you have set for YOUR unit.
Beyond that, you are a staff MAJ or SGM. At that point there is no reason why you shouldn't be conducting PT with your staff section. But...you have a Company Commander and a 1SG who have set the goals for the company and the sections. It is your job to comply. Still should be doing PT with your section.
Beyond that, you have upper level staff SGM's and LTC's and then BN CDR's and CSM's. Keep walking that up the chain. You are no longer a part of any ONE unit, but responsible for the conduct and standards across a larger formation. It is your duty to ensure that those standards are being met. It is difficult to do that by reporting into the unit of your assignment for PT. You should be out with the platoons and troops looking at the physical training being conducted. Participate in those unit PT events, but never stick with one unit. You may be doing great PT...but THAT ISN"T YOUR PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY. The Army doesn't want you for your body anymore. It wants your mind. Sometimes, it's best if you don't work out with a single unit at all, but move in between units on the same morning. It allows you to see the kinds of training going on in different units at once.
Here's the deal...if I show up to do PT with a platoon...it's smoke the Squadron Commander time. The Platoon Sergeant thinks it's his personal mission to show how tough their PT is. What I really want to see is that they are conducting the PT that is on their training schedule, whatever that is. Often I will show up somewhere because they are supposed to go on a long run, but when I show, it gets changed to 5000 burpees and budy carries until someone vomits. Often at this level, just getting out on a run (by myself or with my CSM) accomplishes the REAL task that I am supposed to be performing as a Squadron Commander. I do extra PT as well...and I still get a 300.
I wouldn't call it being exempt from organized PT...I'd call it selective adherence to organized PT in order to enfore the standards and discipline of the Squadron. You call it what you want, and then we can play rock-paper-rank about it. If you win...I'll do what you tell me to do.
This is from my vantage point and what I've seen. Take it for what it's worth and keep an open mind.
The last time a leader is personally responsible for organized unit level PT is at the Company level (1SG and CPT). There are some instances of a MAJ being in charge of a Company, but I'll lump them in with the CPT's. That's the last time unit training management and the conduct of a physical training plan is squarely on your shoulders. You MUST conduct PT with your unit in order to execute and evaluate the plan that you have in place and adjust it as necessary to meet the goals you have set for YOUR unit.
Beyond that, you are a staff MAJ or SGM. At that point there is no reason why you shouldn't be conducting PT with your staff section. But...you have a Company Commander and a 1SG who have set the goals for the company and the sections. It is your job to comply. Still should be doing PT with your section.
Beyond that, you have upper level staff SGM's and LTC's and then BN CDR's and CSM's. Keep walking that up the chain. You are no longer a part of any ONE unit, but responsible for the conduct and standards across a larger formation. It is your duty to ensure that those standards are being met. It is difficult to do that by reporting into the unit of your assignment for PT. You should be out with the platoons and troops looking at the physical training being conducted. Participate in those unit PT events, but never stick with one unit. You may be doing great PT...but THAT ISN"T YOUR PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY. The Army doesn't want you for your body anymore. It wants your mind. Sometimes, it's best if you don't work out with a single unit at all, but move in between units on the same morning. It allows you to see the kinds of training going on in different units at once.
Here's the deal...if I show up to do PT with a platoon...it's smoke the Squadron Commander time. The Platoon Sergeant thinks it's his personal mission to show how tough their PT is. What I really want to see is that they are conducting the PT that is on their training schedule, whatever that is. Often I will show up somewhere because they are supposed to go on a long run, but when I show, it gets changed to 5000 burpees and budy carries until someone vomits. Often at this level, just getting out on a run (by myself or with my CSM) accomplishes the REAL task that I am supposed to be performing as a Squadron Commander. I do extra PT as well...and I still get a 300.
I wouldn't call it being exempt from organized PT...I'd call it selective adherence to organized PT in order to enfore the standards and discipline of the Squadron. You call it what you want, and then we can play rock-paper-rank about it. If you win...I'll do what you tell me to do.
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CPT (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) Hey SSG, I totally get your point. I also think that it’s the Old Man’s job to be doing PT with all the companies. In my time as an HHC XO i always enjoyed the days the CSM and the BDE CO would show up and PT with us, but the COL is definitely spot on with his point that PT stepped up a bit on those days. I think the most important thing is for the leaders to be doing PT everyday and showing Joe that they can still hack it.
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SFC (Join to see)
Doing organized PT with a staff section is still organized PT, so really the answer is pretty much either never or when you get a star. (Those people are just different...)
I would say the question of it being rank is kinda stupid. It should be either dependent on duty position...like a star....or a recruiter who is geographically illogical for group PT/might be already working by that time. Staff might fall into that category, but really everyone should use common sense: if work prohibits you from being at organized PT, no one should bitch.
I would say the question of it being rank is kinda stupid. It should be either dependent on duty position...like a star....or a recruiter who is geographically illogical for group PT/might be already working by that time. Staff might fall into that category, but really everyone should use common sense: if work prohibits you from being at organized PT, no one should bitch.
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Sgt Ed Allen
The only unit I was ever in that the CO did not PT with the unit was Marine Corps Central Data Processing Center, Kansas City, MO. And NOBODY had any respect for that particular Colonel. He was definitely out of shape but held all the other Marines to the standard that he, himself, did not maintain.
That is a failure in leadership.
That is a failure in leadership.
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In a perfect military unit I would say ...none! However, I've never seen a perfect military unit and especially from the PT aspect. Most unit PT programs do not build morale and esprit de corps, most unit PT programs are the same thing over and over again.
Even though I said above, None should be exempt, As a 1SG at Ft. Bragg, I did have exemptions in my unit PT programs. Soldiers who scored 300 on their PT tests were exempt from unit PT for 90 days, with the exception of the weekly Battalion Run. At the end of the 90 days, they had the option to either return to unit PT or take a diagnostic PT test. IF they scored 300, they were exempt again, same rules, if not, back to PT they went.
My reasoning was, 1. Unit PT programs for the most part do not imporve individual Soldier fitness, it only allows him/her to maintain the level they are at. 2. Soldiers scoring 280 and higher are working out on their own time in order to score that 280 and higher. 3. The program was successful in that the unit went from 5 Soldiers with 300 scores to an average of 18-24. Officers, Squad Leaders and Platoon Sergeants were not eligible.
4. These Soldiers did not get to sleep in, they made up a core group of personal and small group trainers that took charge of my PT Failures, those on Weight Contol Program, and Profile personnel. They ensured that these "Special Fitness" Soldiers exercised to their maximum potential and then a little bit more. We soon found out that the majority of the Special Soldiers couldn't get back to the regular PT program fast enough. No one stayed in it long!
So I will have to say that exemptions from unit PT can be good for a unit!
Even though I said above, None should be exempt, As a 1SG at Ft. Bragg, I did have exemptions in my unit PT programs. Soldiers who scored 300 on their PT tests were exempt from unit PT for 90 days, with the exception of the weekly Battalion Run. At the end of the 90 days, they had the option to either return to unit PT or take a diagnostic PT test. IF they scored 300, they were exempt again, same rules, if not, back to PT they went.
My reasoning was, 1. Unit PT programs for the most part do not imporve individual Soldier fitness, it only allows him/her to maintain the level they are at. 2. Soldiers scoring 280 and higher are working out on their own time in order to score that 280 and higher. 3. The program was successful in that the unit went from 5 Soldiers with 300 scores to an average of 18-24. Officers, Squad Leaders and Platoon Sergeants were not eligible.
4. These Soldiers did not get to sleep in, they made up a core group of personal and small group trainers that took charge of my PT Failures, those on Weight Contol Program, and Profile personnel. They ensured that these "Special Fitness" Soldiers exercised to their maximum potential and then a little bit more. We soon found out that the majority of the Special Soldiers couldn't get back to the regular PT program fast enough. No one stayed in it long!
So I will have to say that exemptions from unit PT can be good for a unit!
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1SG (Join to see)
CPT Ahmed Faried , my apology for being so long in getting back to this thread. You comment is exactly what I was alluding too! It is a breath of fresh air to see/hear a commander talk of "his unit's collective" PT score. That is a damn outstanding unit average. A sharpe Salute and High 5 to you.
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SSG Eric Blue
I WISH I had a unit that would have been on it like that when I was in, 1SG. That would have been GREAT! Everything you said was on the money, but the problem I ran into for things such as peer-led PT or special-populations PT is that almost NO ONE wanted to take charge of it! And those that did want to take charge of it weren't allowed to. I had an average PT of 290 and a part-time job as a group fitness instructor. I volunteered over 50 times to lead PT for those who needed help, but could never get the green light to do it. I'm assuming that my CDRs and 1SGs wanted them to "reach their potential on their own or prepare themselves to separate." On a side note, other units saw the up side of being able to call on a green-suiter with civilian group fit experience to help out. And even though they'd sing my praises, I could never get MY UNIT on board. I can only hope they've fixed that since then.
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CPT Earl George
In Germany in 1972, I had a PFC who did not feel well and wanted to be exempt from afternoon PT. He said."Sir, if I drop and give you 50, can I get out of afternoon PT." before I could say anything, he had the 50 knocked out. Yes, I let him out of the PT. I was never approached with a better attempt to get out of PT during my military career. I also never saw a more fit soldier than the above mentioned one.
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SSG Eric Blue
SGT (Join to see) - I hated that in Hovey and Casey when I was there. The only soldiers with a consistent 270+ APFT score were the FISTers. And that's because we always worked hard, especially if you were with me! Compared to us, no one did PT or wanted to do PT. "IHOP PT" was almost always the order of the day with the other platoons.
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