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SFC Observer   Controller/Trainer (Oc/T)
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I think if we're really serious about readiness and combat lethality, we need to worry a lot less about run times and a lot more on schools, training and education.
In 20+ years and seven deployments, I have seen many missions fail because leaders or soldiers were incompetent.
I've never seen a mission fail because of a Soldiers run time or waist line.
We focus on low hanging fruit because it's easy, but it doesn't affect meaningful change.
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WO1 Civil Affairs Recruiter
WO1 (Join to see)
1 mo
This^^^^
We barely even train people to do their basic jobs, or even understand what their job is, let alone be an expert in it.
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SFC Senior Infrastructure Support
SFC (Join to see)
1 mo
#400 for this post.
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MSG Operations Nco
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To be honest, I knew this was going to happen. The old 623-3 stated specifically that an APFT score of 90% in each event (270 or better) was a justified Excellence bullet on the NCOER. The new ACFT has made that standard nearly impossible for 95% of females. Every centralized board AAR memorandum specifically says “Soldiers who consistently scored higher than 270 on the APFT were viewed higher than their peers.” This will result in lower overall board scores for females, reducing their promotion rates.

The same can be said about removing DA photos and blocking names from boards. This will mean that promotion selections are solely based upon merit, which will likely reflect in disparities between rank and overall Army demographics.

ACFT was a dumb idea. Too much equipment is required and PT test day is now a week long affair.

The answer to the Army’s fitness evaluation problem is actually written within the APFT instructions: “gives your commander an INDICATION of your state of fitness.” The APFT was never meant to be the single metric for determining combat readiness. That’s why we have collective and individual training, why we conduct FTX/STX/CPX, and why we send units to the training centers.
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MSG Operations Nco
MSG (Join to see)
1 mo
There are physiological differences between men and women’s, and there is nothing sexist about pointing out those facts. We had a gender-specific test before, and it was realistic for most healthy men and women to get max scores with the proper training strategy and effort. This test places the burden more heavily on the female population for to achieve high scores. I’m all for equality and set standards, but these should not ignore the physical differences between the sexes.

In civil service exams, it is generally considered a discriminatory test when certain demographic groups consistently score less than 80% of the average majority group scores. It’s like when you have a test for police officers, and the only ones who make the Academy list are from a single demographic. The validity of such a litmus test can be argued in many different ways, for and against. Regardless, the 80% rule (referred to as Adverse Impact) has become a legal precedent that is considered a modern standard. One could argue that this ACFT could be an adverse impact that could be subject to future litigation.
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SSG Steven Borders
SSG Steven Borders
1 mo
MSG (Join to see) - Not to mention the Age Differences too. Being a 40 year old I don't quite have the body of a young 18 year old.
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GySgt Team Chief
GySgt (Join to see)
1 mo
MAJ Javier Rivera I agree with everything you said. As for the combat readiness portion, ACFT is just a part of that. It determines your fitness level and abilities for combat.

I don’t know if you ever trained at range 400 in 29 Palms, but if you’re not (Combat fit), then you are either going to heat case out, cause training to stop because you can’t keep up, or get left behind.

To your MOS point, I also agree. Non-combat arms should stick with the APFT and the combat arms stick with the ACFT. This how it was initially suggested to the MC, but we know how stubborn and illogical this green beast can be.
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MAJ Javier Rivera
MAJ Javier Rivera
1 mo
GySgt (Join to see) I would not go as far as having to separate events for separate groups. Perhaps, improve the current APFT (sit-ups for crunches) and and some other tactical set of events on an alternate basis; e.g. road march, drag a 200 lbs weight for 100 ft (simulated casualty), etc... Therefore, every quarter Soldiers have some sort of for record event.
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SPC Michael Head
7
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Please lawmakers, lead the way and demonstrate the PT test you believe will be the most useful.
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SFC Intelligence Analyst
SFC (Join to see)
1 mo
CPL Earl Kochis - Not every single company, BN or BDE can go into the gym at the same time during PT so no there isn't enough equipment for everyone. Every unit is supposed to get the equipment down to BN and they haven't yet. Now add onto NG and Reserves.

It's an absolutely pointless test and literally the only reason big Army wants it is they want people who "look" fit. It's been said they don't care if they end up with a smaller force as long as it's "fit" but this isn't going to make anyone fit when they haven't changed the weight/height standards since like the 70s. I saw a female post she failed weight and tape - and she is PURE muscle. Her FB she lives in the gym almost. Her hips fucked her - and that's what gets most of us females. How do they expect people to be doing more weight lifting and not change weight standards to reflect it.

Also they really think doing barely two years of testing is enough to implement this? I read when this came out it would take 5 years to finalize standards. Five years. So why the rush to implement it.

Yes we need a new PT test. No one disagrees but why this is the sword they want to die on? Honestly if they want this, just do the 3 minimum you need on perm profile to stay deployable: Deadlift, Sprint drag carry and an aerobic. What's wrong with just that? It's just ridiculous.
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CPL Earl Kochis
CPL Earl Kochis
1 mo
And that’s where I question how you got in leadership! One not every unit brigade or bn will be doing the test at the same time! Two you can train for the test very easily using your normal combat equipment!! It’s called adapt! Adapting to the situation is finding a way to prepare for the test with what you have available! Kinda like a poor boxer using a rolled up mattress as a heavy bag!! The sled pull can easily be trained for with things sitting in your motor pool! As a leader you’d find a way to train rucksacks filled with stones work great for strength training! And almost every post has a multitude of gyms that have this equipment readily available! All I’m hearing is excuses!SFC (Join to see)
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CW4 Jet Aircraft Pilot
CW4 (Join to see)
1 mo
CPL Earl Kochis - MAJ Javier Rivera Not to mention all the TINY detachments around the world... think Recruiting Stations, ROTC Cadre, Embassies, MAAGs, ODCs, Foreign Exchange Officers... there are literally hundreds (probably 1,000+) of these small types of units that are geographically separated with fewer than 10 personnel. Is the Army going to buy the equipment for all these units? What about the Joint and Foreign units that the Army doesn't control the budget on?
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MAJ Javier Rivera
MAJ Javier Rivera
1 mo
CW4 (Join to see)

Good one!!!!!!!
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