Flags and Vexillology
Flags and Vexillology
Posted on May 4, 2015
Free Speech vs Flag Burning. Is it protected in the Constitution?
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I hate it that people feel the need to flip the flag upside down or burn it in protest. But, is it protected in the Constitution? If it is, is it wrong to try to suppress that form of speech? Tell me what you think in the comments.
Rights
Constitution
Freedom
Flags and Vexillology
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 8
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Short answer? Yes. Flag burning is free speech and is protected by the Constitution. For the rest of my feelings on the matter, I'll just cut-paste a previous reply.
I replied to a similar post earlier, and I try to be efficient, so...
"We don't swear to protect the flag. We don't swear to protect the government. We swear to protect the Constitution. We swear to support and the defend the right of every person to exercise their right to free speech. Protest against the government (including through desecration of the flag) is, without question, the right of the people. At the end of the day, the flag is just cloth, it is a SYMBOL of the freedom we serve to protect and defend. While people may desecrate the cloth flag, they are exercising their rights to free speech - and their right to free speech is what we defend - not a flag. I'm not willing to lay down my life from a flag - I'm willing to lay down my life for the freedoms that the flag symbolizes.
It may not look right or feel right and it may hurt your feelings, but you have to accept that THIS is EXACTLY what we need to be defending the right to do.
Voltaire said something to the affect of, "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." That is our job. That is our mission. And the fact that people CAN do this freely and without being dragged about by the government or arrested by the police means that, for now, we are doing our job.
I replied to a similar post earlier, and I try to be efficient, so...
"We don't swear to protect the flag. We don't swear to protect the government. We swear to protect the Constitution. We swear to support and the defend the right of every person to exercise their right to free speech. Protest against the government (including through desecration of the flag) is, without question, the right of the people. At the end of the day, the flag is just cloth, it is a SYMBOL of the freedom we serve to protect and defend. While people may desecrate the cloth flag, they are exercising their rights to free speech - and their right to free speech is what we defend - not a flag. I'm not willing to lay down my life from a flag - I'm willing to lay down my life for the freedoms that the flag symbolizes.
It may not look right or feel right and it may hurt your feelings, but you have to accept that THIS is EXACTLY what we need to be defending the right to do.
Voltaire said something to the affect of, "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." That is our job. That is our mission. And the fact that people CAN do this freely and without being dragged about by the government or arrested by the police means that, for now, we are doing our job.
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LTC (Join to see)
That's where the "marshals of the protesters" tell the veteran he is inciting a riot.
Of course, earlier in the video, protestors tell the veteran to "walk away or you can get carried away". If that wasn't a threat, it was full of intimidation.
Of course, earlier in the video, protestors tell the veteran to "walk away or you can get carried away". If that wasn't a threat, it was full of intimidation.
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
LTC (Join to see) - Some examples from a previous topic "Would you knock someone out and secure the flag?" (or something to that effect).
SSG Nick Tramontano
If 'Freedom of Speech' rules are in effect than I am good. I'm Italian and have a tendency to 'talk with my hands' and if I'm explaining to the individual(s) why their actions are wrong my hand just might hit them upside the head !!
SSG Timothy McCoy
Capt D., unfortunately you are so very right.
But if that treaded flag would be jerked out from under the walker feet, akin to a table cloth from under china dinner set, and the Idiot happens to fall on his head, you say I don't have to help him up.
PO1 Dustin Adams
The proper way to dispose of a soiled flag is to burn it. Is it my fault they are walking on it at the time?
SPC Gregory Ream
I'm thinking what most of y'all are saying. It ticks me off like you wouldn't believe to see this being done, but, legally speaking, it is allowed, and to prevent someone from doing it would set a precedent that would damage freedom of speech in the long run. That said, if someone trips and runs into my fist while they're standing on the flag...I can't help that.
SGT Kevin Brown
Sir, I see what you are getting at and I agree about the Oath and the rights of those stomping on the Flag. With that said, I would still knock them out (knowing that I will being spending time behind bars), not because I am offended or because I think it's wrong, but in honor of all the men and women who died for that flag, especially those I knew personally.
1SG Stephen Burgess
And by this same reasoning, they are not disrespecting the piece of material that is dyed red, white and blue. They are disrespecting what and who it stands for. It is the meaning behind their actions that I would take issue with. Not the mere desecration of the flag, but the total lack of respect for what it stands for. For this reason, I would probably be willing to do some time for the assault.
SSG Roger Ayscue
Sergeants,
No...sheep need to be taught. Teaching can be painful, but it needs to be done.
I heard it asked once why the brave have to die, leaving the weak and cowardly to breed. We do provide a blanket of freedom to the sheep, true enough, but sometimes a sheep need to get it's lessons taught.
1SG Stephen Burgess
A sheep dog occasionally finds it necessary to bite the sheep.
SSG Roger Ayscue
YES!
If you have to ask why, you are in the wrong line of work.
SGT Kevin Brown
I appreciate your thoughts and opinion. With that said, would you not defend someone you love, dead or alive? That is honor to me. I swore an Oath to the Constitution, which I will keep till the day I die, but I also pledged allegiance to the Flag, for which I will defend and that Flag is a direct symbol of those who have died, men and women whom I loved. Punching someone in the face isn't a violation of their rights, they still have their Flag and can stomp on it, they will just have to do it with a black eye.
CPT Kurt Woods
Not only YES; however, I'd recommend it. Freedom of speech is one thing but to defile the flag and to disrespect the blood shed by our soldiers is unconscionable.
Unfortunately Liberals, many politicians and our General Officers have succumb to pressure and lack a spine to stand up for what's right.
MSG Michael Loveless
I believe so. I may fight for the right of freedom of speech but when you disrespect the countries symbol of this you are disrespecting all of us that fight for it.
SFC James Sczymanski
If you hit them with an open hand it could be simple assault, as opposed to a closed fist, battery, and if they see it coming then assault and battery. So if you do anything make sure it is an open hand ear slap from behind, they will drop and your charges will be less.
Cpl George Randitsas
Stomping on a Flag is not freedom on speech. It is a action or expression. So I would not be breaking my oath that I had taken so many years ago. I have been out for 13 years. I was taught a long time ago that you have to stand up for what you believe in. No matter what the consequences. So yes I would knock him out. Some disagree with me. That is freedom of speech and is legal. If I knock out someone stomping the Flag that is expression. Not legal. Jail to me is worth it. Semper Fi and good day.
SSG Nick Tramontano
If 'Freedom of Speech' rules are in effect than I am good. I'm Italian and have a tendency to 'talk with my hands' and if I'm explaining to the individual(s) why their actions are wrong my hand just might hit them upside the head !!
SSG Timothy McCoy
Capt D., unfortunately you are so very right.
But if that treaded flag would be jerked out from under the walker feet, akin to a table cloth from under china dinner set, and the Idiot happens to fall on his head, you say I don't have to help him up.
PO1 Dustin Adams
The proper way to dispose of a soiled flag is to burn it. Is it my fault they are walking on it at the time?
SPC Gregory Ream
I'm thinking what most of y'all are saying. It ticks me off like you wouldn't believe to see this being done, but, legally speaking, it is allowed, and to prevent someone from doing it would set a precedent that would damage freedom of speech in the long run. That said, if someone trips and runs into my fist while they're standing on the flag...I can't help that.
SGT Kevin Brown
Sir, I see what you are getting at and I agree about the Oath and the rights of those stomping on the Flag. With that said, I would still knock them out (knowing that I will being spending time behind bars), not because I am offended or because I think it's wrong, but in honor of all the men and women who died for that flag, especially those I knew personally.
1SG Stephen Burgess
And by this same reasoning, they are not disrespecting the piece of material that is dyed red, white and blue. They are disrespecting what and who it stands for. It is the meaning behind their actions that I would take issue with. Not the mere desecration of the flag, but the total lack of respect for what it stands for. For this reason, I would probably be willing to do some time for the assault.
SSG Roger Ayscue
Sergeants,
No...sheep need to be taught. Teaching can be painful, but it needs to be done.
I heard it asked once why the brave have to die, leaving the weak and cowardly to breed. We do provide a blanket of freedom to the sheep, true enough, but sometimes a sheep need to get it's lessons taught.
1SG Stephen Burgess
A sheep dog occasionally finds it necessary to bite the sheep.
SSG Roger Ayscue
YES!
If you have to ask why, you are in the wrong line of work.
SGT Kevin Brown
I appreciate your thoughts and opinion. With that said, would you not defend someone you love, dead or alive? That is honor to me. I swore an Oath to the Constitution, which I will keep till the day I die, but I also pledged allegiance to the Flag, for which I will defend and that Flag is a direct symbol of those who have died, men and women whom I loved. Punching someone in the face isn't a violation of their rights, they still have their Flag and can stomp on it, they will just have to do it with a black eye.
CPT Kurt Woods
Not only YES; however, I'd recommend it. Freedom of speech is one thing but to defile the flag and to disrespect the blood shed by our soldiers is unconscionable.
Unfortunately Liberals, many politicians and our General Officers have succumb to pressure and lack a spine to stand up for what's right.
MSG Michael Loveless
I believe so. I may fight for the right of freedom of speech but when you disrespect the countries symbol of this you are disrespecting all of us that fight for it.
SFC James Sczymanski
If you hit them with an open hand it could be simple assault, as opposed to a closed fist, battery, and if they see it coming then assault and battery. So if you do anything make sure it is an open hand ear slap from behind, they will drop and your charges will be less.
Cpl George Randitsas
Stomping on a Flag is not freedom on speech. It is a action or expression. So I would not be breaking my oath that I had taken so many years ago. I have been out for 13 years. I was taught a long time ago that you have to stand up for what you believe in. No matter what the consequences. So yes I would knock him out. Some disagree with me. That is freedom of speech and is legal. If I knock out someone stomping the Flag that is expression. Not legal. Jail to me is worth it. Semper Fi and good day.
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PO2 John Zodun
It’s been 65years since I took my oath but the best I can remember you take an oath to god our country and to protect our flag and country against all her Enemies both Foreign domestic with our lives
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SFC Joseph James
Fortunately the 1st amendment to the Constitution has been deemed by the Supreme Court that flag burning is protected as freedom of speech. That being said we all swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States and that oath never expires. Personally, I don't condone desecration of the flag of our nation but I/we must defend to the death their right to be wrong/stupid, paraphrasing someone from history. Just my opinion.
C.
Fortunately the 1st amendment to the Constitution has been deemed by the Supreme Court that flag burning is protected as freedom of speech. That being said we all swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States and that oath never expires. Personally, I don't condone desecration of the flag of our nation but I/we must defend to the death their right to be wrong/stupid, paraphrasing someone from history. Just my opinion.
C.
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
Why "unfortunately"? The nice thing about this country and free speech is that we all don't HAVE to condone it. It's not unfortunate that it's protect - it imperative that it's protected! If we don't protect free speech we don't necessarily agree with now, there will be no one left to protect our free speech when the times comes to speak it.
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SPC Charles Brown
MAJ Bryan Zeski
Sorry that word should not have been left in. I amended my comment with the intent to remove that word and forgot to do so. I will fix it now.
C.
Sorry that word should not have been left in. I amended my comment with the intent to remove that word and forgot to do so. I will fix it now.
C.
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SSG Paul Setterholm
Toughest question you could ask. I believe in freedom of speech and expression but the soldier in me will protect the flag.
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