Law
Law
Posted on Sep 23, 2016
Should law enforce be allowed to brandish a firearm in order to command compliance from an unarmed and non-aggressive "suspect"?
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This behavior has been going on for a while now. Law enforcement officers drawing their weapon without any just cause. In this case, a police officer pulled his gun on a man for filming with his cell phone on his own front lawn.. Is this behavior acceptable?
http://counton2.com/2015/08/05/cellphone-video-shows-california-cop-unholstering-gun-triggering-controversy/
*I have family in blue*
http://counton2.com/2015/08/05/cellphone-video-shows-california-cop-unholstering-gun-triggering-controversy/
*I have family in blue*
Police
Law Enforcement
Law
Tactics
Police Officer
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 55
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I don't think they should for reasons such as this...BUT...there are situations that warrant me pulling out my weapon. Those are going to be instances that endanger my life. For example, if I am clearing a house that a caller said had someone in it, the gun is coming out. If I am on a traffic stop and he/she reaches under his/her seat or waistband, it is coming out. If they are not armed, I will gladly put away my weapon, apologize and explain why I drew my weapon on them.
*just to put this out there, there are those that say "pull out the taser" or " spray them with OC spray." Different actions require different uses of force.
If they want to record me, I'll just ask if my hair is ok and continue on with my traffic stop. Let everyone film in my opinion. You are helping me to establish probable cause and maybe catch an angle that my camera cannot. Please understand, there are reasons why police draw their weapons. For those of us that do it cautiously, it is a form of compliance if we have reason to believe that they are armed.
This is not an easy job. If anyone thinks that they can do it better, please apply at your local agency. Or I encourage you to go on a ride along; maybe even attend a citizens police academy so that you can be put through drills and some training that we go through.
Before judgement is cast, have ALL of the facts. The officer, in my opinion, should not have drawn his weapon in this case. There was no danger and cell phone cameras are now the norm. Accept it or turn in your badge and gun if you are going to be so thin skinned.
*just to put this out there, there are those that say "pull out the taser" or " spray them with OC spray." Different actions require different uses of force.
If they want to record me, I'll just ask if my hair is ok and continue on with my traffic stop. Let everyone film in my opinion. You are helping me to establish probable cause and maybe catch an angle that my camera cannot. Please understand, there are reasons why police draw their weapons. For those of us that do it cautiously, it is a form of compliance if we have reason to believe that they are armed.
This is not an easy job. If anyone thinks that they can do it better, please apply at your local agency. Or I encourage you to go on a ride along; maybe even attend a citizens police academy so that you can be put through drills and some training that we go through.
Before judgement is cast, have ALL of the facts. The officer, in my opinion, should not have drawn his weapon in this case. There was no danger and cell phone cameras are now the norm. Accept it or turn in your badge and gun if you are going to be so thin skinned.
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SGT C Mendez
MCPO Roger Collins - Nothing wrong with that at all. My father (retired NYPD) told me to always go home at the end of my shift. So I completely understand.
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MCPO Roger Collins
CDR Michael Goldschmidt - RP is very open to comments, say your piece, just as most of us do on controversial topics. For the most part, I have found once you prove your opposition wrong a couple of times, they block you. And that or ignore are fine.
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Capt Gregory Prickett
For those supporting the officer - do you think, like 1stSgt Nelson Kerr asked, that the other person wants to go home that night too? I'm all for officer safety, but it does not trump the Constitution. It does not allow us to justify excessive force, and drawing one's pistol without a legitimate reason is excessive force.
Take a look at what SGT C Mendez said--if you can't handle being filmed, turn in your badge and gun. That's absolutely correct.
MSG Pat Colby - Only a reactionary fascist would try and second guess a Citizen exercising their Constitutional rights while just trying to get home alive to his/her family at the end of the day.
There, fixed it for you. I didn't spend 20 years as a military member nor 20 years as a cop protecting people's Constitutional rights just to turn around and give them up like you advocate. Wearing a badge deserves respect, but it doesn't give the officers any additional rights, and as noted, does not trump the Constitution.
Take a look at what SGT C Mendez said--if you can't handle being filmed, turn in your badge and gun. That's absolutely correct.
MSG Pat Colby - Only a reactionary fascist would try and second guess a Citizen exercising their Constitutional rights while just trying to get home alive to his/her family at the end of the day.
There, fixed it for you. I didn't spend 20 years as a military member nor 20 years as a cop protecting people's Constitutional rights just to turn around and give them up like you advocate. Wearing a badge deserves respect, but it doesn't give the officers any additional rights, and as noted, does not trump the Constitution.
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I am disabled and use a cane. This has happened to me here in Las Vegas. My nephew was helping me walk back to my car one night. The police stopped us because we looked suspicious and he was pointing his gun the whole time. He actually kicked my cane out of my hand and said quit faking that's not your car. Four other officers ended up showing up as "back up". The first officer said we was acting suspicious around this Mercedes so he stopped us. I am now doubled over in pain..which was the reason my nephew was helping in the first place. I refused to allow a search but I did ask if I could reach into my pocket for the keys to my damn car. The look was priceless and of course I said a lot of very unpleasant words to the initial officer. The officer in the video is either way to timid to be an officer or he is a egomaniac with a badge. Either way it could be a good time for him to retire, move on or simply be fired.
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SGT Rudy Gibson
Sgt Joseph Baker - He was using his gun as a pointer and saying all kinds of silly stuff. If I hadn't been in so much pain I would have found it comical. My nephew is a big kid at 6'5" and when I can stand straight up I am 6'3". When the other officers got there he quickly holstered his weapon and started spinning his lie about the two suspicious men and how we were peaking in the windows. I've never been so happy for a remote starter in my life.
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
SPC Erich Guenther - You were in Michigan, your UW sticker did you in
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SPC Erich Guenther
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen - Ha, if only. No I think they saw the UW sticker and thought smuggling of drugs. Similar treatment at the border crossing in Detroit.....all sorts of questions why someone from Wisconsin would use that border crossing, had to explain I worked in Detroit.....it's just erroneous profiling, in my view.
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SSG (Join to see)
SSG Jeremy Sharp - rolling the ball or unsnapping the holster is very different from pulling and pointing a weapon. As you said most people don't even know you did it. But those that do notice now have a more heightened awareness of what is going on.
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When I was a young rookie I used to pull my gun at the first sign that things were not going well and that there may be problems. After I did that one night on a call with an old (and I mean old) cop.
When we got the guy arrested and in the car he pulled me to the side. He said, "Why did you pull your gun on that guy?" I returned with, "I wanted him to know we meant business." "So what happens when he does not do what you want? You going to shoot him?" I said. 'No. I am just trying to make him do what we want him to do." I will never forget his response, "A gun is the last resort. If you pull it and he calls bullshit now you are the one that has to back down. We're cops and we don't back down."
I never forgot that. It changed the way I policed. I still pulled my gun when it was really necessary and I came very close several times to shooting somebody, but it was justified at the time. Talking to somebody sometimes is all you need. Other times you got to get your hands dirty and make the person comply, but that is what you are trained for. My point is that pulling your sidearm when it is not necessary only causes issues it does not fix them.
Now this video. The police officer tells him to take his hand out of his pocket. He is non compliant. Pockets hold bad things that can kill you. I know I would have pulled my gun out just like he did. Then to go ask the people at the local head shop what they think about the police is pretty much bullshit.
When we got the guy arrested and in the car he pulled me to the side. He said, "Why did you pull your gun on that guy?" I returned with, "I wanted him to know we meant business." "So what happens when he does not do what you want? You going to shoot him?" I said. 'No. I am just trying to make him do what we want him to do." I will never forget his response, "A gun is the last resort. If you pull it and he calls bullshit now you are the one that has to back down. We're cops and we don't back down."
I never forgot that. It changed the way I policed. I still pulled my gun when it was really necessary and I came very close several times to shooting somebody, but it was justified at the time. Talking to somebody sometimes is all you need. Other times you got to get your hands dirty and make the person comply, but that is what you are trained for. My point is that pulling your sidearm when it is not necessary only causes issues it does not fix them.
Now this video. The police officer tells him to take his hand out of his pocket. He is non compliant. Pockets hold bad things that can kill you. I know I would have pulled my gun out just like he did. Then to go ask the people at the local head shop what they think about the police is pretty much bullshit.
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SMSgt Keith Klug
Does this cop stop everyone while driving down the street and have them take their hands out of their pockets???
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SGT William Howell
You have to take this in context. He was called to a suspicious person call. That is why he was there. He had a duty to act and investigate. Second, how often do you began filming as soon as you see the police. This guy was looking for a confrontation from the get go. There is more to this than just the video. SMSgt Keith Klug -
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SMSgt Keith Klug
SGT William Howell - He may have been responding to a suspicious person call but he should be smart enough, through training and time as a cop, to realize that someone standing in his yard filming is not suspicious.
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
I like your comment that he was an old cop. My feeling is that back in the "old" days cops were trained to handle situations in a calming manner. Based on what you see today, from jurisdictions all over the country, this is not the case. Too much emphasis on using weapons as the means to control a situation in basic training officers receive these days.
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