Mentorship
Mentorship
Posted on Dec 28, 2013
Worst Feeling? Explaining to a Soldier why the COC felt the need to deny their award.
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I was reading through a few other awards threads on here, and it got me thinking about all the awards I've submitted Soldier's for that have either been lost by S-1 shops, denied due to "insufficient rank" or the quota system.<div><br></div><div>I can't help but feel that, regardless of the reason, that Soldier, deep down, just got a little bit more bitter and resentful towards the military, and that always breaks my heart slightly...</div><div><br></div><div>What do you guys tell yourselves in these situations? How do you rationalize this, or try to take away some of the sting when a deserving Soldier will not be receiving an award for reasons you can't enthusiastically explain?</div><div> </div><div>UPDATE</div><div> </div><div>Also, a follow up question would be: "what would be an ideal awards processing system to you?". What would implementation look like?</div>
Awards
Army
Mentorship
Motivation
AR 600-8-22
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
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This may sound controversial but walk with me for a minute. Should Command be the approval for awards? The only rational for approving, disapproving, or downgrading and award is the write up, correct? How about all awards be sent to centralized approval board? That takes out all external influence. The write up shouldn't even include the persons rank. The board reads the write up and says yes this merits this award or not.<div>If command has nothing to do with the promotion of it's senior ranks (centralized promotion boards) then why include the awards?</div><div>The rational for one excludes the other.</div>
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PV2 Duane Schlender
Juat one problem with that.. Politics will get involved and demand names or push people through with special marks/notations on the award letter margins and it would still get abused. That, and politics would control the board. Just like everything else. The real problem is politics and greed. Eliminate those and things will improve because people will gain top military ranks based on soldier skill and merit vs. Political in roads. Its really that simple im affraid.
Read the award prerequisites for the army silver star vs. The army medal of honor. That should tell you everything you need to know. So many MOH deservind soldiers have silver stars because politics didnt want to use them as a promotional advertisement.
Read the award prerequisites for the army silver star vs. The army medal of honor. That should tell you everything you need to know. So many MOH deservind soldiers have silver stars because politics didnt want to use them as a promotional advertisement.
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SGT Jeremiah White
CSM Mike Maynard And yet, in almost any unit in the Army, the Specialist is less likely to get the award, or more likely to get it downgraded because commands, in direct violation of regs, attach rank requirements to awards.
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MAJ (Join to see)
One central submission point. Just a DOD ID number to identify the individual - no name or rank. No stupid submission timelines of 120+ days prior to presentation date.
I like how you think, SSG Robert Burns !
I like how you think, SSG Robert Burns !
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SFC Rick Forlines
SSG (Join to see) - When questions over a retirement award arose in my time, I suggested an AAM and told to the CSM to go parade himself, having endured the screaming idiot far too long already. The same son-of-a-bitch who had an MSM stuck on him for duty performed by a subordinate.
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First off, don't tell the soldier what you have done. I myself have been recommended for an award that my 1sg had no right to down grade, but my 1st line leader allowed it to happen. Now in my position, I've recommended my soldiers for awards that my co or 1sg have denied and I walked into their offices and told them<div>To their faces they had no right to deny, then told them if they read regulations and expected me to uphold the standard they would do what is right and send the award to the approving or denying authority!!! Never tell a soldier that you have put her/ him in for an award until it has been approved! Don't be the cause for bitterness against command!!!</div>
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SGT Sam Harvey
That’s the whole point when you put someone’s name in don’t say anything until it’s been approved!
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CPL Luke Ediger
CSM Mike Maynard Yet you let it happen all the time when you were CSM of 1-1. You kicked back several awards for medics because they weren’t E-5s so they didn’t deserve the ARCOM they got recommended for.
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CSM Mike Maynard
That's not true CPL Luke Ediger - it never had anything to do with rank. It was always that whoever wrote it up, did not write ARCOM-level bullets, and yes, I did kick them back, to give them the opportunity to re-write if they believed that the Soldier had ARCOM-level performance. AAMs were for those exceeding expectations, ARCOMs were for those far exceeding expectations.
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I was put up for an MSM and denied because I was not an E-7, even though the bullets supported an MSM. I don't think its fair and I can see where the Soldier can be a little bit more resentful. It is not the first time it has happened and probably won't be the last. In the end I ended up with an ARCOM.
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GySgt (Join to see)
I resemble that remark except that I’ve heard the threshold in the Marines wa Master Sergeant. I was a Hunny nominated and it got downgraded. I also agree that the awardee should not be told because it always has a risk of being downgraded.
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CSM (Join to see)
“Fair”, fair is a ball hit between 1st and 3rd. It’s got nothing to do with Awards. If the policy says E7 and above..... well, kind of speaks for itself... I hope your MSM was downgraded to the appropriate rank and approved!
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MSgt Brian LaRochelle
Yep-Same here... Air Force decorations reg. doesn't specify a grade restriction for MSM, but because I was an E6 at the time, I wasn't even considered. Had to accept an AFCM for 30 year's service.
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SGT (Join to see)
Same here. 4 of us Put in for MSM's. The E6's got the award, the 2 E5's were downgraded to ArCom....
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