Posted on Aug 7, 2017
CPT Brigade Assistant S1 Oic
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1SG Stephen Burgess
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When I was a 1SG I would have put my foot up a civilians ass for trying to impose corrective actions on a Soldier. Now that I am a GS civilian...I would put my foot up a civilians ass for trying to impose corrective actions on a Soldier.
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SGM Pat Cunningham
SGM Pat Cunningham
28 d
Great answer 1SG. Civilian have a pay grade - no rank, and fill a position. Military on the other hand have a pay grade AND rank and can fill any position when needed. Military can fill a civilian position but a civilian can never fill a military position.
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SSG Bob Teachout
SSG Bob Teachout
28 d
But a Civilian can be a rater or endorser on an EER
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SP5 John Eskins
SP5 John Eskins
27 d
HOOAH ! Now that's the response I would expect from TOP, and as far as I'm concerned there is no civie anywhere that has this authority over a soldier or sailor, except for POTUS and his immediate staff.
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SGT Donna Millar
SGT Donna Millar
17 d
That’s the best response and oh my I needed that laugh
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Maj John Bell
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On Embassy Duty, as the Company "F" OpsO, I had a State Department General Services Officer (sort of the embassy S-4) tell me he was the equivalent of a Brigadier General and demand that I stand at attention when I addressed him and render a hand salute upon arrival or departure of his presence. The Ambassador (a Former Marine Artillery Officer) and I laughed so hard we couldn't breathe. When the Ambassador could finally speak, he said "Not even in pay grade... dumbass." Then we laughed some more.
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CW2 Chris Wilson
CW2 Chris Wilson
4 mo
A GSO being an O7 equivalent is unlikely at post, but not impossible at exceptionally large embassies, such as Baghdad. It is possible for a GSO track officer to reach that pay grade, however within the senior foreign service pay scale, it is referred to as OC. A GSO who is an OC in pay grade is more likely in a position at main state. But it is not unusual for an embassy to have numerous officers who are equivalent in grade to GO/Flag ranks, however it is rarely the GSO and more likely a political officer or DCM. It's also possible for a staff officer to be higher in grade than the ambassador, but not common. I had a tour at a post where that was the case. Unlike the military, in the foreign service, positional rank is not congruent to pay grade. Nevertheless, the ambassador, regardless of their pay grade, is equivalent by position to an O10 for protocol purposes as they are the direct representative of the president. Incidentally, the Defense Attaché, often an O5 or O6, is equivalent to an O8 for protocol purposes in some countries. Suffice it to say, pay grades aside, there is no comparison in reach of responsibility and authority of a brigadier general and a civilian SES or SFS grade equivalent.
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SSG Paul Headlee
SSG Paul Headlee
3 mo
That warms my heart.
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SSG Paul Headlee
SSG Paul Headlee
3 mo
Cpl Tou Lee Yang Thank you for keeping it real.
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CDR Officer In Charge
CDR (Join to see)
3 mo
CW2 Chris Wilson - Correct, at my current post we have several Minister Consulars, and Consular level section heads, Political, ECON, Consular General, PAO, MGT, USAID, FAS, all are O7-O8 level, in both pay and status (rank SFS).
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Col Joseph Lenertz
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From my operational background (not legal, not a JAG), the legal requirement to obey legal orders given by superior commissioned officers is well known and established. A GS civilian is not a superior commissioned officer, and is not in the direct chain of command. The only situation where I could imagine a GS civilian having any authority to direct even one push-up would be a doctor or nurse during an examination following an injury to determine readiness, or during physical therapy, but even then these would be considered medical advice and not orders. If you failed to follow medical advice and as a result you harmed yourself or prevented recovery, then your commander could legally punish you, but that's about as close as I can imagine.
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LT Robin McPeters
LT Robin McPeters
3 mo
I agree with the JAG, but can see one additional scenario. With all the contract workers replacing active duty. It could be possible for a civilian contractor to be an instructor at a school where pushups, either for exercise or punishment, are a part of the ciricula. In a case like this, the command would have to grant these special, limited powers, with strict criteria for employment on an individual basis.
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1SG Joseph Dartey
1SG Joseph Dartey
3 mo
Oh hell no Lt Robin McPeters. As 1SG Stephen Burgess put it, "I would put a boot in any civilian's (GS) ass that would try and make me or any of my soldiers do any push-ups."
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PO2 Jerry Van Ness
PO2 Jerry Van Ness
3 mo
I've been out of the service for many years, but I can't imagine a way to demoralize an active duty military person more than have a civilian allowed to discipline him.
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MAJ Bill Hatfield
MAJ Bill Hatfield
1 mo
LT Robin McPeters - Be careful, you are confusing a GS Civilian with a Contractor. Two different animals! I am a Retired GS, would never think of to impose corrective actions on a Soldier, that what the military chain of command is there for!
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