Posted on Aug 7, 2017
CPT Brigade Assistant S1 Oic
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1SG Stephen Burgess
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When I was a 1SG I would have put my foot up a civilians ass for trying to impose corrective actions on a Soldier. Now that I am a GS civilian...I would put my foot up a civilians ass for trying to impose corrective actions on a Soldier.
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SFC Ronald Rankin
SFC Ronald Rankin
2 mo
Top, that's because you're a GS Veteran!
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CPL Jurgen Clevenger
CPL Jurgen Clevenger
2 mo
I'm a GS. I used to wear the Uniform. The answer is hell no, under no circumstances ever!
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MSgt Thomas Benedict
MSgt Thomas Benedict
1 mo
As a retired MSGT, I would say that a civilian cannot order a Military to do push-ups. However, the Military man may be subject to orders by a civilian that pertains to the work assigned to the Military man. This would be defined by the Command structure of that base.
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SSgt Steve Rimi
SSgt Steve Rimi
1 mo
Indelicately put, but I fully concur.
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Maj John Bell
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On Embassy Duty, as the Company "F" OpsO, I had a State Department General Services Officer (sort of the embassy S-4) tell me he was the equivalent of a Brigadier General and demand that I stand at attention when I addressed him and render a hand salute upon arrival or departure of his presence. The Ambassador (a Former Marine Artillery Officer) and I laughed so hard we couldn't breathe. When the Ambassador could finally speak, he said "Not even in pay grade... dumbass." Then we laughed some more.
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SFC William Allen
SFC William Allen
4 mo
I would have liked to have been there- I could have used the laugh. When I was posted in Germany we had ALOT of civilian employees- I always showed them respect just on general principle. Only one time I didn't get any respect from some German civilian employees and man, did I lit into them. My Sargent Major called me down to his office the next day and chewed my ass! It was the best ass chewing I ever got!
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MSgt Mike (Lobo VNV Original) Morrow
MSgt Mike (Lobo VNV Original) Morrow
3 mo
My last three years in as a Msgt (E7) I was bless with an assistant shop chief that was a GS14, once a month he pulled reserve duty and came to work as a CMsgt (E9). while in uniform he took care of the reserve troops and if I was at work I took care of the active duty troops and the shop. We had no conflicts that I can remember over who out ranked who.
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CPT Paul Whitmer
CPT Paul Whitmer
1 mo
I was a GS 12 following 25 years of active duty - I would NEVER have even remotely considered giving any uniformed military personnel any orders - much less "pushups", "salutes" and related BS. Absolutely NEVER - and I would gladly jump on any GS civilian that tried it in my presence. That's NCO business. If you have a prob with a soldier - address it with his/her NCO - let them handle it.
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MAJ Craig Gilkison
MAJ Craig Gilkison
1 mo
I've been hearing that "equal to" or "equivalent of" bullshit for decades from civilians DA and other. I politely reply , look ass-hat, either you are military or you are not. When you have the authority to order troops into combat you are 'equal." Unless you are an NCO or Commissioned Officer you do NOT have, nor ever will have such authority. This is as it should be. You have just proved you are incompetent for such authority.
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Col Joseph Lenertz
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From my operational background (not legal, not a JAG), the legal requirement to obey legal orders given by superior commissioned officers is well known and established. A GS civilian is not a superior commissioned officer, and is not in the direct chain of command. The only situation where I could imagine a GS civilian having any authority to direct even one push-up would be a doctor or nurse during an examination following an injury to determine readiness, or during physical therapy, but even then these would be considered medical advice and not orders. If you failed to follow medical advice and as a result you harmed yourself or prevented recovery, then your commander could legally punish you, but that's about as close as I can imagine.
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CPT Daniel Cox
CPT Daniel Cox
5 mo
Col Lenertz,
At least in the Army a GS Civilian can be in the direct chain of command. As a Captain at the Army Training and Doctrine Command, a civilian GS-14 wrote my Officer Evaluation Report, making her in my direct chain of command, with a Colonel as my Senior Rater. She was one of the best bosses I ever had and taught me so much, especially how to write effect General Officer Back-Channel messages for my two- and four-star Generals. I doubt she would ever have directed an officer or enlisted soldier to do push-ups. She wound up a GS-God by the end of a career that started as a GS-4 Secretary.
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COL Brian Shea
COL Brian Shea
4 mo
CPT Daniel Cox - I understand and appreciate what you said. But would offer that the GS14 was not part of your chain of command. I know it gets iffy and have been in some similar positions, but for instance your GS14 could not impose NJP (Art 15) on you like those in your military chain of command. In many instances the rating scheme follows the chain of command, but not always. And when GS employees are in key positions things can get complicated. Sounds like you had a good GS14 to work with, which is great. But as to the base issue no GS anything should be trying to tell a Soldier to do pushups. I don't recall ever running into a GS employee with that attitude but some are probably out there - hopefully not for long.
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CPT Paul Whitmer
CPT Paul Whitmer
1 mo
I was a GS 12 following 25 years of active duty - I would NEVER have even remotely considered giving any uniformed military personnel any orders - much less "pushups", "salutes" and related BS. Absolutely NEVER - and I would gladly jump on any GS civilian that tried it in my presence. That's NCO business. If you have a prob with a soldier - address it with his/her NCO - let them handle it.
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PO1 Bert Gebhard
PO1 Bert Gebhard
3 d
I served with civilians too. I got so sick of people telling me "He/She is the equivalent of a rear admiral, lieutenant commander, etc. I always said "No, he or she is equal to a GS-13, etc." Apples and oranges.
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