Posted on Oct 16, 2016
CPO Officer Candidate
1.61M
14.1K
4.78K
1.1K
1.1K
0
08a24fcb
Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Avatar_feed
Responses: 3285
GySgt Kenneth Pepper
2.7K
2.7K
0
It must be nipped in the bud quickly and without hesitation. Having had a few minutes to think about it, here goes....
PFC Shitbird and his team leader stand fast. All others fall out and carry on.

Have PFC Dipshit stand by while I ensure his team leader knows what my expectations are; "Instant obedience to lawful orders. Period. Any other answer is unacceptable. The fact that PFC Dipshit thinks it is okay to open his trap is a direct reflection of your leadership. Take a look at how you are leading and determine how this could happen."

To PFC Dipshit; "If you have decided to end your time in the military you have chosen a sure-fire method. If you do not comply with lawful orders, it will eventually end with you on a bus headed for home. But only after spending the next few weeks/months becoming the example of what not to do. If that is what you want, we will go there. If not, get your ass moving on what you were ordered to do."
(2.7K)
Comment
(0)
SSG Bill McCoy
SSG Bill McCoy
19 d
SP5 Chet Scheel - Or a Seaman Apprentice (SA) or perhaps a specific rating such as HA (Hospitalman Apprentice, Boatswain Apprentice, etc, etc). In the Marines, he'd be a PFC; Army is PVT/E-1; PV2/E-2.
With his attitude, I'm surprised he made it out of Boot Camp!
(1)
Reply
(0)
SFC Thomas McMahon
SFC Thomas McMahon
19 d
SP5 Chet Scheel - Depends on the branch. Marines an E-2 is a Private First Class. Army an E-3 is a Private First Class. Not sure about the other branches, original poster is Navy and I don't believe they even have Privates
(1)
Reply
(0)
PO2 Lon Hebert
PO2 Lon Hebert
13 d
PO2 Pamela Perry (Sanders) - I am like you Pamala raised in louisiana and texas and yes sir no sir and yes mama and no mam. I came in 71.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SPC Primary Tactical Control Assistant.
SPC (Join to see)
12 d
Just have the turd burglar wait in the front leaning rest on the side of formation until the formation concludes. Then make his first line handle the remainder of the on the spot correction. ez
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar_small
CPL(P) Tech Ops Fleet Management
1.6K
1.6K
0
Edited 4 y ago
Praise in public, punish in private. "You stand fast after formation." Give him a chance to explain insubordination. Mandatory counseling. If he is defiant in private after getting the chance then burn him. ART15. Sometimes people are defiant because something happened and they feel out of control so they try to take it wherever they can no matter how inappropriate. Sometimes a wife cheated or a parent died. Sometimes the hospital calls and congratulates you on having cancer. To outright burn a Joe without gathering the facts is irresponsible and we would want someone breathing down our neck to take that extra moment to consider what might be going on too. If it's nothing more than attitude and a shitty personality then by all means light that dead Christmas tree and know you probably saved lives downrange.
(1.6K)
Comment
(0)
SPC Chris Ison
SPC Chris Ison
18 d
SSG Bill McCoy - Me, having to do something stupid, is punishment.

What you guys don't get is that the military has conditioned you to think that is NOT punishment, when it is.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSG Bill McCoy
SSG Bill McCoy
18 d
SPC Chris Ison - "Leave no man behind," means a whole lot more than leaving them down range or in the bush. It includes HELPING your fellow service member. So, we have to agree to disagree on what is/is not punishment.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SPC Chris Ison
SPC Chris Ison
18 d
SSG Bill McCoy - "Leave no man behind," means a whole lot more than leaving them down range or in the bush. It includes HELPING your fellow service member. So, we have to agree to disagree on what is/is not punishment.

So it is the groups responsibility to look after the fuck up; But they should not be punished when he fucks up.

Got it.

Either you are a team and each person is responsible for both success and failure, or you're individuals. You don't get to have it both ways.

If the group is team, the individual failure is a team failure and the team is punished.

Do you think the Chiefs, are going to blame one guy for the loss of the super bowl? Or do you think the entire team is going to put through training to try and fix what is broken?

If Soldier A messes up, and we have a safety stand down that is "punishment" for those of us who don't fuck up, and don't need to be reminded of stupid shit like don't ride in a humvee without a Kevlar on.

Remedial training is punishment for me.

Why should I have to sit through remedial training for someone else's mistake?

Why should I have to look for a lost weapon, when I did not lose my weapon? Fuck that soldier, court martial him for dereliction of duty, misappropriation of government property, failure to obey a lawful order and whatever else you can tack on, discharge him punitively, and fuck the weapon.

if it was lost in the field, on a post it will turn up eventually, if for some reason it was stolen, your not going to find it anyway; And if it is lost on the battlefield, well then there are more serious problems in your command.

See a lost weapon is not everyone else's problem in the long run is it? No. However, everyone is punished by having to look for said weapon, and that is needed to make a point: don't lose your weapon. You can let the guy off with an Article 15, if you punish everyone else; But if you just punish him you have to make an example of him.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSG Bill McCoy
SSG Bill McCoy
18 d
SPC Chris Ison - "A team is defined as a group of people who perform interdependent tasks to work toward accomplishing a common mission or specific objective."
I don't fathom how you so badly misinterpret what TEAM actually means. You seem stuck on seeing only yourself as an INDIVIDUAL and not part of a unit as a group, i.e., TEAM. So in your mind, it seems, you have no concerns for your fellow soldiers and how one or all can affect the entire unit be it a fireteam, squad, platoon or company?
The Chiefs are a sports team ... playing a GAME. Soldiering is in no way, shape or form merely a game. The military is NOT a game, and yes, each member must pull their own weight for the overall success of the unit/team. If any one person knowingly lets a fellow team member make a mistake, then they too own that mistake.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar_small
PO1 David Gibbens
1.4K
1.4K
0
I can speak from experience on this one. On my first boat( yes I'm a submariner) as an E3 I was made Deck Div LPO, AKA Leading Seaman. While passing out the day's job assignments, I was told "f@#k no" by one of the new seaman. I was shocked to say the least. I went to the 1st LT, a TMCS, and informed him of my situation. He told me in no uncertain terms to take said individual to the back of the work barge and show him the error of his ways. I did so, physically. The young man never questioned me again.
Now, before everyone jumps on me, let me give you my opinion on this matter. This was the late '70s. We were still in the Viet Nam mind set. However; when did the military go from being a gung ho military organization to a job? "Ask him what's wrong". Really?! When you're at 400ft and there's a fire in the Torpedo Room, or you're someplace where people are shooting at you are you really going to take no as an answer?? Or are you going to kick him in his ass, and get him motivated to move in the right direction? I spent 20 years in the Submarine Force and I've seen people come and go. And the ones that went were sent haze gray and underway on surface ships. Which, BTW, was the same as failing. Next time someone tells a senior NCO he doesn't want to do something, point out that the contract he signed doesn't say anything about liking it. He (or she) doesn't have to like it. They just have to do it. STS1(SS) USN, Ret
(1.4K)
Comment
(0)
AA Michel Erlandsen
AA Michel Erlandsen
12 d
As we all know there are three sides to a story, and a story inside a story. I'm a Vietnam vet and been in the Navy for 3 years and Air Force for 20 yrs. I've seen so much conflict between high ranks and lower ranks. More than enough lowest rank is always at fault. Its proof right here in this blog. All these higher ranks that are responding to this question immediately are on the E5 side. First of all , being CALMLY too one person may not be calmly to others. How did the E5 calmly speak to his troops. Was he calmly saying " Hey, do you think your bright enough to do this task"? Or was he very diplomatic when he asked this young troop to do this task. The E2 also could be a spoiled little brat.
I have seen so many E4 and above just let their ranks get to their head. It's like giving a MONkEY A LOADED GUN.
There was a CWO I knew who hated enlisted personnel, thought every one of them were stupid and didn't know their jobs, and talked down to them. He has been spoken to by other higher ranking officers to lighten up on he enlisted, but since he was an officer he didn't have to. This is just one example, of so many I've seen. On the other hand Ive' seen a lot of PUNK ASS Kids that are just out of control, and there is no discipline that well straighten them out.
If this E2 is being a Punk, I agree , he should be pulled out of formation and perhaps talk to him to see whats bothering him and why he reacts this way. If getting no place with him then serious discipline actions need to be taken
According to this E5 question, it sounds to me that nothing happened (no discipline acct-ion} to the E2 because the E5 may not of been at his best behavior also. I say this is because he's asking this question to see how many people will agree with him, and nobody knows the real story. Also the picture shows that this E5 is not calm and he is amplifying his authority.
(0)
Reply
(0)
PO2 Evan Pruss
PO2 Evan Pruss
12 d
You should feel stupid for posting this type of thing on a (semi) public forum.
(0)
Reply
(0)
PO2 Evan Pruss
PO2 Evan Pruss
12 d
LCDR (Join to see)
This guy gets it. A ton of responses in here are embarrassing.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSG Derek Dimond
SSG Derek Dimond
10 d
My initial thought, was to smoke the shit out of the private; yelling in his face as he beat his face. Retired NCO, that I am and it is good thing I don't do my first thoughts. Being engaged with this type soldier several times as a leader. If he is out of control or undisciplined he needs to be handle. My least favorite thing was punishing soldiers. I would and I was always nice until the line was crossed. I still be nice as I would type up counseling to give to SGM or 1sg Depending on offense. If the soldier is a shit bird let his record i.e.. monthly counseling statements and/or negative counseling speak for themselves. To do things the right way tends to be time consuming and is much more effective. I always did counseling negative and positive. Soldier deserves to know where they are standing in grace with their leaders or against. Amazing what understanding does and not being right about things allowing speak to be free flowing. Its also about respect and dignity. It has to flow both ways depending on circumstances.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar_small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close