Posted on Apr 18, 2019
SPC Healthcare Specialist (Combat Medic)
76.3K
2.47K
673
333
333
0
I am a female in the army current on rotation over seas. I was just told by my team leader that my platoon Sgt (female) told him that I need to start wearing a bra while off duty. in the clothes that I wear, you can't see my nipple or even the color of my nipple nor do I wear revealing or low cut shirts. At the most, you can just see that I am simply not wearing one. Nowhere in any reg does it say it’s required not even in uniform. Can she tell me to do so?
Avatar_feed
Responses: 281
1SG Senior Drill Sergeant
380
380
0
SPC (Join to see), it's completely subjective and interpretive really. AR 670-1, paragraph 3-9 outlines the rules for wearing civilian clothing. Whether we like it or not, the Army does regulate what we can wear off duty outside of our home. However, it uses statements such as "subject to local regulations" and "will present a professional image". Those are interpretive statements and are difficult to disagree with. We, as RP members, don't know the local policies for your duty station. Your chain of command does.

RP isn't the place to get an answer on this topic. You'll just get opinions that are irrelevant to your chain of command. You really only have two options:

1. Comply and accept that it's a priority for this particular PSG. Ultimately, this will save you a lot of grief for your remaining time in that unit.

2. Continue to disagree and have a professional discussion with your PSG about your concerns. If you feel that your PSG is being completely unreasonable then you're always able to use the open door policy for your 1SG.

With that said, I highly suggest keeping this issue at the lowest level possible. You must weigh the pro's and con's of this fight. Is it really worth the effort? These are only questions you can answer.

Best of luck.
(380)
Comment
(0)
LtCol Matthew Thomas
LtCol Matthew Thomas
11 d
Just close the comments 1st Sgt Johnston nailed it.
(2)
Reply
(0)
SFC Charles McVey Sr.
SFC Charles McVey Sr.
9 d
CPT (Join to see) - I only encountered this issue one time and I had a Company formation, I was Field First and the First Sergeant was on leave, at that formation I made it abundantly clear to all that in or out of uniform proper dress would be adhered to at all times on or off base. I also stated anyone male or female who violated this policy would be delt with in a manner consistent with the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The Company Commander, who just happened to be female, then addressed the Company and backed me up. The next day this policy was posted to the Company Bulletin Board, Signed by myself, and Counter Signed by the Company Commander. That was the end of it, no more problems.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSG Ryan Rink
SSG Ryan Rink
7 d
PVT Robert Cameron research it!
You gave up 5 of them to wear a uniform.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Sgt Jim Mullins
Sgt Jim Mullins
7 d
USMC never advised me as to what civilian dress to wear. We were trained on how to wear our uniforms and it was enforced.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar_small
LtCol Robert Quinter
195
195
0
The only conceivable reason I could come up with is the fact that you are US military in a foreign country and your platoon sgt feels your lack of a bra could be offensive to the locals. In any event, you deserve more information from your platoon sergeant directly without putting your team leader in what could be an awkward situation.
(195)
Comment
(0)
Sgt Tim Horton
Sgt Tim Horton
4 mo
A1C Joseph Fox round the moron. Good job.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SPC Joshua Dawson
SPC Joshua Dawson
13 d
I fail to see how anything more would even need to be said about this. This is a simple dress code that must be adhered to the entire time someone is enlisted because they represent the military on and off the clock.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SSG Ryan Rink
SSG Ryan Rink
7 d
LTC Philip Marlowe respectfully Sir, but did you write local policy letters to address the particular issue? And why would you remove NCO's from enforcement of Regulations? Give me your intent and I'll produce a battle ready soldier.
(0)
Reply
(0)
LTC Philip Marlowe
LTC Philip Marlowe
7 d
SSG Ryan Rink - Yeah, 1) no I didn't 'write' an SOP directing female soldiers to wear bra's because it was not my job as a Commander to be their daddy.... Not ONE female soldier in any of my commands was a 'juvenile'. 2) Army nor any of the other military branch 'direct' what apparel female soldiers will wear when off duty (even in the middle east - they provide guidance but NOT policy/regulatory), so no one, especially me, was 'removing' anyone from enforcing UNIFORM policies or regulation. Back in the day - and I'm not talking all that long ago, NO ONE, male or female, could go on PASS, down town NOT in uniform. That ALL changed during throughout the 60s. What you, SSG Rink think of as a 'weekend' is NOT a weekend, it is a pass, and at one time, every soldier leaving installation needed one in their possession and to be IN UNIFORM - even married soldiers. NOW, the 'new generations' call them weekends. Since the '70 up till now the US military has sustained almost never ending evolution with regards to females - with especial regards to 'dress'. I simply reiterate it is NOT the job or responsibility of NCOs (male OR female) to tell any soldier (male OR female) what to / not to wear when in 'civvies'....UNLESS it is specifically provided for in an SOP/Instruction 'germane' to the local area - and even then, having served numerous tours throughout Central Europe, Balkans, Middle East and Asia, NEVER have I seen an SOP demanding female soldiers to 'wear bras' in civilian attire - EVER.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar_small
SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4"
129
129
0
Edited 1 y ago
As a former PSG. Straight up. I wouldn’t do it nor would I direct one of my team leaders to give such an awkward directive. Especially if just for the sake of saying that without giving further serious clarification. I am of the opinion that is way inappropriate for me as male to tell you something like that. Especially giving the facts of what you just stated and taking them at face value.

Having said that.......

I would ask my SQD/Team leaders if this is causing a legitimate widespread issue to unit cohesion and morale. If the answer is yes, then that is a seperate matter. If the answer is no, but just a personal gripe that they don't like, my answer to my SQD/Team leaders would be to leave her alone. We shouldn't be making on the spot corrections based upon our personal preferences. That isn't how that should work.

JP
(129)
Comment
(0)
PO1 Warren Jameson
PO1 Warren Jameson
11 d
GySgt John Hudson - When some SPC doesn't know his ass from Shinola, I pointed out that I am in fact NOT A PFC. He needs some training, and as a Gunny, you would be the one to reprimand this insubordinate E-4. He got pissed because HE made a mistake by using the Pronoun HE twice when referring to a female, and I jokingly pointed it out.
(1)
Reply
(0)
GySgt John Hudson
GySgt John Hudson
11 d
Another good point. Obviously I agree. Still, the sleeve comparison need not be given unless, as you said, thee one does not know ones south point from northern area. Dealing with females can be a serious event no matter the subject. Gunns
(0)
Reply
(0)
SFC Charles McVey Sr.
SFC Charles McVey Sr.
9 d
SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" - I would agree with the in private conversation; however in the New Modern Army of Today, I would also suggest that the PSG have a witness of the same gender present to observe all that is said. CYA time.
(1)
Reply
(0)
PO2 Jon Coulter
PO2 Jon Coulter
7 d
If she don't pass the pencil test, wear the bra.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar_small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close