Posted on Jul 31, 2018
Does someone qualify for the CIB for deploying as an 11B without being MOS qualified?
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I have a soldier who volunteered for a deployment as an 11B but is still technically 12B and came back asking if he should have the CIB. I told him i didnt think so but that I'd research for him. Since he was "infantry" on the deployment and with an infantry unit and perfomed the tasks of an Infantrymen does he qualify for the CIB or just the CAB? Since my knowledge on the CIB is limited to what I've read any input would be appreciated.
11B: Infantryman
Combat Infantry Badge (CIB)
Infantry
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 23
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Will only be eligible for a CAB as a 12 series, even if doing an 11B job and or in a job that was 11B-sorry to say; them be the regs!
And remember-you don’t need no stinking badges to be True Blue!!
And remember-you don’t need no stinking badges to be True Blue!!
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CPT Lawrence Cable
SGT Michael Thorin - I don't disagree with that statement, but I think it is meant to cover someone that took a position in a rifle squad during a pre-deployment train up and then deployed with that infantry squad in combat. I don't have a problem giving a CIB to a non MOS qualified individual if he is serving and has been trained in that position. I don't think it happens as much today, but think back to the Battle of the Bulge when cooks and anti aircraft gunners were put into the line as riflemen.
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SGT (Join to see) if this soldier served as an infantryman in an infantry unit in combat for the required amount of time he should be eligible per HRC guidance.
For award of the CIB a 11 or 18 series Soldier must meet the following three requirements:
(1) Be an infantryman satisfactorily performing infantry duties.
(2) Assigned to an infantry unit during such time as the unit is engaged in active ground combat.
(3) Actively participate in such ground combat. Campaign or battle credit alone is not sufficient for award of the CIB.
"On or after 18 September 2001, a Soldier must be an Army infantry or special forces officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of colonel or below, or an Army enlisted Soldier or warrant officer with an infantry or special forces MOS, who has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or special forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. A Soldier must be personally present and under fire while serving in an assigned infantry or Special Forces primary duty, in a unit engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires."
Background from ARMY HRC
"The Combat Infantry Badge (CIB) was established by the War Department on 27 October 1943. Lieutenant General Lesley J. McNair, then the Army Ground Forces commanding general, was instrumental in its creation. He originally recommended that it be called the "fighter badge." The CIB was designed to enhance morale and the prestige of the "Queen of Battle." Then Secretary of War Henry Stinson said, "It is high time we recognize in a personal way the skill and heroism of the American infantry." Originally, the Regimental Commander was the lowest level at which the CIB could be approved and its award was retroactive to 7 December 1941. There was a separate provision for badge holders to receive a $10 per month pay stipend, which was rescinded in 1948. From the beginning, Army leaders have taken care to retain the badge for the unique purpose for which it was established and to prevent the adoption of any other badge which would lower its prestige. At the close of World War II, our largest war in which the armor and artillery played key roles in the ground campaigns, a review was conducted of the CIB criteria with consideration being given to creating either additional badges or authorizing the badge to cavalry and armor units. The review noted that any change in policy would detract from the prestige of the badge.
The definition of requirement to be "engaged in active ground combat" has generated much dialog over the years as to the original intent of the CIB. The 1943 War Department Circular required infantrymen to demonstrate "satisfactory performance of duty in action against the enemy." The operative words "in action" connoted actual combat. A War Department determination in October 1944 specified that "action against the enemy" for purposes of award of the CIB was to be interpreted as "ground combat against enemy ground forces." In 1948, the regulation governing badges stipulated that "battle participation credit is not sufficient; the unit must have been in contact with the enemy." This clearly indicated that an exchange of hostile fire or equivalent personal exposure was the intent of the Army leadership. In 1963 and 1965 HQDA messages to the senior Army commander in the Southeast Asia theater of operations authorized award of the CIB to otherwise qualified personnel "provided they are personally present and under fire." U.S. Army Vietnam regulations went so far as to require documentation of the type and intensity of enemy fire encountered by the Soldier. The intended requirement to be "personally present and under fire" has not changed.
For award of the CIB a Soldier must meet the following three requirements:
(1) Be an infantryman satisfactorily performing infantry duties.
(2) Assigned to an infantry unit during such time as the unit is engaged in active ground combat.
(3) Actively participate in such ground combat. Campaign or battle credit alone is not sufficient for award of the CIB.
The specific eligibility criteria for the CIB require that an officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of colonel or below, or an Army enlisted Soldier or warrant officer with an infantry or Special Forces MOS, who subsequent to 6 December 1941 has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or special forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat. Eligibility for Special Forces personnel in Military Occupational Specialties (MOS) 18B, 18C, 18E, 18F, and 18Z (less Special Forces medical sergeant) accrues from 20 December 1989. Retroactive awards of the CIB to Special Forces personnel are not authorized prior to 20 December 1989. A recipient must be personally present and under hostile fire while serving in an assigned infantry or Special Forces primary duty, in a unit actively engaged in ground combat with the enemy. The unit in question can be of any size smaller than brigade.
Personnel with other than an infantry or Special Forces MOS are not eligible, regardless of the circumstances. The infantry or Special Forces SSI or MOS does not necessarily have to be the Soldier’s primary specialty, as long as the Soldier has been properly trained in infantry or Special Forces tactics, possesses the appropriate skill code, and is serving in that specialty when engaged in active ground combat as described above. Awards will not be made to general officers or to members of headquarters companies of units larger in size than brigade
On or after 18 September 2001, a Soldier must be an Army infantry or special forces officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of colonel or below, or an Army enlisted Soldier or warrant officer with an infantry or special forces MOS, who has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or special forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. A Soldier must be personally present and under fire while serving in an assigned infantry or Special Forces primary duty, in a unit engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. Soldiers possessing MOS of 18D (Special Forces Medical Sergeant) who satisfactorily perform special forces duties while assigned or attached to a special forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat may be awarded the CIB. These Soldiers must have been personally present and engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. Retroactive awards under these criteria are not authorized for service prior to 18 September 2001. Those Soldiers possessing MOS of 18D who qualify for award of the CMB from 18 September 2001 to 3 June 2005 will remain qualified for the badge."
https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Combat%20Infantry%20Badge%20CIB
Thank you for mentioning me my friend SGT Michael Thorin
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Orlando Illi Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price CPT Jack Durish Capt Tom Brown CMSgt (Join to see) MSG Andrew White SFC William Farrell SGT (Join to see) Sgt Albert Castro SSG David Andrews Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. SGT Charles H. Hawes SGT Mark Halmrast SPC Margaret Higgins
For award of the CIB a 11 or 18 series Soldier must meet the following three requirements:
(1) Be an infantryman satisfactorily performing infantry duties.
(2) Assigned to an infantry unit during such time as the unit is engaged in active ground combat.
(3) Actively participate in such ground combat. Campaign or battle credit alone is not sufficient for award of the CIB.
"On or after 18 September 2001, a Soldier must be an Army infantry or special forces officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of colonel or below, or an Army enlisted Soldier or warrant officer with an infantry or special forces MOS, who has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or special forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. A Soldier must be personally present and under fire while serving in an assigned infantry or Special Forces primary duty, in a unit engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires."
Background from ARMY HRC
"The Combat Infantry Badge (CIB) was established by the War Department on 27 October 1943. Lieutenant General Lesley J. McNair, then the Army Ground Forces commanding general, was instrumental in its creation. He originally recommended that it be called the "fighter badge." The CIB was designed to enhance morale and the prestige of the "Queen of Battle." Then Secretary of War Henry Stinson said, "It is high time we recognize in a personal way the skill and heroism of the American infantry." Originally, the Regimental Commander was the lowest level at which the CIB could be approved and its award was retroactive to 7 December 1941. There was a separate provision for badge holders to receive a $10 per month pay stipend, which was rescinded in 1948. From the beginning, Army leaders have taken care to retain the badge for the unique purpose for which it was established and to prevent the adoption of any other badge which would lower its prestige. At the close of World War II, our largest war in which the armor and artillery played key roles in the ground campaigns, a review was conducted of the CIB criteria with consideration being given to creating either additional badges or authorizing the badge to cavalry and armor units. The review noted that any change in policy would detract from the prestige of the badge.
The definition of requirement to be "engaged in active ground combat" has generated much dialog over the years as to the original intent of the CIB. The 1943 War Department Circular required infantrymen to demonstrate "satisfactory performance of duty in action against the enemy." The operative words "in action" connoted actual combat. A War Department determination in October 1944 specified that "action against the enemy" for purposes of award of the CIB was to be interpreted as "ground combat against enemy ground forces." In 1948, the regulation governing badges stipulated that "battle participation credit is not sufficient; the unit must have been in contact with the enemy." This clearly indicated that an exchange of hostile fire or equivalent personal exposure was the intent of the Army leadership. In 1963 and 1965 HQDA messages to the senior Army commander in the Southeast Asia theater of operations authorized award of the CIB to otherwise qualified personnel "provided they are personally present and under fire." U.S. Army Vietnam regulations went so far as to require documentation of the type and intensity of enemy fire encountered by the Soldier. The intended requirement to be "personally present and under fire" has not changed.
For award of the CIB a Soldier must meet the following three requirements:
(1) Be an infantryman satisfactorily performing infantry duties.
(2) Assigned to an infantry unit during such time as the unit is engaged in active ground combat.
(3) Actively participate in such ground combat. Campaign or battle credit alone is not sufficient for award of the CIB.
The specific eligibility criteria for the CIB require that an officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of colonel or below, or an Army enlisted Soldier or warrant officer with an infantry or Special Forces MOS, who subsequent to 6 December 1941 has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or special forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat. Eligibility for Special Forces personnel in Military Occupational Specialties (MOS) 18B, 18C, 18E, 18F, and 18Z (less Special Forces medical sergeant) accrues from 20 December 1989. Retroactive awards of the CIB to Special Forces personnel are not authorized prior to 20 December 1989. A recipient must be personally present and under hostile fire while serving in an assigned infantry or Special Forces primary duty, in a unit actively engaged in ground combat with the enemy. The unit in question can be of any size smaller than brigade.
Personnel with other than an infantry or Special Forces MOS are not eligible, regardless of the circumstances. The infantry or Special Forces SSI or MOS does not necessarily have to be the Soldier’s primary specialty, as long as the Soldier has been properly trained in infantry or Special Forces tactics, possesses the appropriate skill code, and is serving in that specialty when engaged in active ground combat as described above. Awards will not be made to general officers or to members of headquarters companies of units larger in size than brigade
On or after 18 September 2001, a Soldier must be an Army infantry or special forces officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of colonel or below, or an Army enlisted Soldier or warrant officer with an infantry or special forces MOS, who has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or special forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. A Soldier must be personally present and under fire while serving in an assigned infantry or Special Forces primary duty, in a unit engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. Soldiers possessing MOS of 18D (Special Forces Medical Sergeant) who satisfactorily perform special forces duties while assigned or attached to a special forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat may be awarded the CIB. These Soldiers must have been personally present and engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. Retroactive awards under these criteria are not authorized for service prior to 18 September 2001. Those Soldiers possessing MOS of 18D who qualify for award of the CMB from 18 September 2001 to 3 June 2005 will remain qualified for the badge."
https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Combat%20Infantry%20Badge%20CIB
Thank you for mentioning me my friend SGT Michael Thorin
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Orlando Illi Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price CPT Jack Durish Capt Tom Brown CMSgt (Join to see) MSG Andrew White SFC William Farrell SGT (Join to see) Sgt Albert Castro SSG David Andrews Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. SGT Charles H. Hawes SGT Mark Halmrast SPC Margaret Higgins
Toll-Free: 1-888-ARMY-HRC (1-888-276-9472) DSN: 983-9500 AskHRC
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LTC Stephen F.
FYI SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" LTC Kevin B. I am not sure if SPC Chris Ison is a troll or not. I consider his comment to my last comment disrespectful although it be okay within RallyPoint etiquette.
I have been doing my best to respond respectfully to Chris Ison, William Jones, etc. Only Chris Ison seems to be deliberately insulting.
"Notice it starts off with "SPC Chris Ison"? That is because you chose to deliberately call me out.
Then you tried an appeal to authority by talking about your background in history.
I quote: I have been studying history and military history since the early 1960's, enlisted as 12b in 1974 and was commissioned as 11a in 1980.
So, yes i called you slow, because I stated a very simple FACT: The MOS of Infantryman did not fucking exist until 1965.
You are the third LTC I have met, in this forum, that just can't seem to admit they are wrong. And that is why i called you slow, and now I am calling you obtuse. Seriously, you people make me wonder how, with an up or out policy, so many field grade officers are stuck in stupid."
Earlier he had commented. He obviously has strong opinions - which is fine. Belittling those who disagree with him is disappointing to say the least.
"However in the United States, the MOS of "infantry" did not exist until Vietnam.
The formation of Infantry was used, and the original "CIB" was supposed to be the "warrior" badge, designed to denote anyone who had seen actual combat. The politics of the award is stupid.
Having to be school trained is fucking stupid, especially when the US Army is dismounting mechanized, armored, and other motorized units and designating them infantry and assigning them an infantry mission."
I have been doing my best to respond respectfully to Chris Ison, William Jones, etc. Only Chris Ison seems to be deliberately insulting.
"Notice it starts off with "SPC Chris Ison"? That is because you chose to deliberately call me out.
Then you tried an appeal to authority by talking about your background in history.
I quote: I have been studying history and military history since the early 1960's, enlisted as 12b in 1974 and was commissioned as 11a in 1980.
So, yes i called you slow, because I stated a very simple FACT: The MOS of Infantryman did not fucking exist until 1965.
You are the third LTC I have met, in this forum, that just can't seem to admit they are wrong. And that is why i called you slow, and now I am calling you obtuse. Seriously, you people make me wonder how, with an up or out policy, so many field grade officers are stuck in stupid."
Earlier he had commented. He obviously has strong opinions - which is fine. Belittling those who disagree with him is disappointing to say the least.
"However in the United States, the MOS of "infantry" did not exist until Vietnam.
The formation of Infantry was used, and the original "CIB" was supposed to be the "warrior" badge, designed to denote anyone who had seen actual combat. The politics of the award is stupid.
Having to be school trained is fucking stupid, especially when the US Army is dismounting mechanized, armored, and other motorized units and designating them infantry and assigning them an infantry mission."
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SPC Chris Ison
LTC Stephen F. - Well i took it that way, I am sorry. It seems to be my go to for dealings with people on the internet.
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SSG Jeffrey Leake
LTC Stephen F. If said soldier is not MOS qualified as an 11 Bravo, then they are not eligible for the CIB. Said soldier is eligible for the CAB.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
Seems as if Os detailed to Infantry cannot get CIB either. When I was in an O of any branch assigned to command an infantry company 30 days or more, except HHC, was considered detailed to Infantry. Also, USA LTs were often detailed to Infantry for their first few years before moving on to their CSC, CSSC, etc. assigned branches. They got CIBs even if they were AG detailed to IN.
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First and foremost, was he involved in a situation that would quantify a CIB. If he did, then the unit he was attached to would be the ones to recommend him and ultimately award him with one. Since he is back and asking, I assume they did not recommend him and therefore I would assume he is not qualified to get one. Did they put him in for a CAB?
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LTC Jeff Shearer
Dan great question about the CAB. We have established he does not rate the CIB and just being in a war zone does not warrant a CAB, CMB, or CIB. If it was a combat zone he warrant a combat patch, maybe. They are easier to get.
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SPC Donald Moore
MSG Dan Castaneda - That is an excellent point that I don't think anyone else made. If you get an award, it is normally issued by the chain of command that observed the performance of the action meriting the award.
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