Posted on Jan 14, 2014
Should an NCO's APFT score be annotated on the NCOER?
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APFT
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The Pt test is constantly used as the universal measuring stick for what is considered to be "high speed", or a generally a good leader. This is an outdated mentality. Leadership ability is not measured by the number of push-ups you can do. When faced with a leadership challenge, should you drop down and do push-ups until the solution comes to you in a bolt of lightning?
I would rather have an outstanding leader with a mediocre pt score over a pt stud that can't think or apply common sense.
2 minutes of push-ups, sit-ups and running for 2 miles is a horrible indicator of physical fitness. The pt test is a relic of past times and should be discontinued.
That being said, it's mandatory and if you fail it, you should deal with the consequences. The score is blocked out on the ERB because the score is a biased discriminator for selection. Putting the score on the NCOER is circumventing the system in order to showcase what would otherwise be an irrelevant piece of information that could introduce bias.
I would rather have an outstanding leader with a mediocre pt score over a pt stud that can't think or apply common sense.
2 minutes of push-ups, sit-ups and running for 2 miles is a horrible indicator of physical fitness. The pt test is a relic of past times and should be discontinued.
That being said, it's mandatory and if you fail it, you should deal with the consequences. The score is blocked out on the ERB because the score is a biased discriminator for selection. Putting the score on the NCOER is circumventing the system in order to showcase what would otherwise be an irrelevant piece of information that could introduce bias.
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SGT (Join to see)
Sir you are on point. The current APFT is a relict of past times and should be oerhauled discontinued or something.
This test does not reflect the kind of fitness you need as a soldier.
This test does not reflect the kind of fitness you need as a soldier.
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Absolutly, the NCOER is supposed to be a reflection of the total Soldier. APFT Bodt Fat and I also believe weapon qual should be reflected on the NCOER.
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CSM Michael Poll
MSG Ellis, at no time did I say not to include your leadership skills, I stated the the APFT, Height and Weight and wepons qualification are all a PART of the total Soldier. There is a block for APFT and there is a block for leadership. Do not get twisted around he axle, No one stated that the NCOER should only reflect the APFT or height and weight.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Marsh, show me where it says that please. It does not say "no numerical score, except for bullets". It say no numerical score, period.
Additionally, APFT scores are specifically ommited from promotion board packets (X'ed out). Why on earth would the Army purposely remove them from promotion packets, write a regulation that says "do not enter numerical scores on NCOER's" and then turn around and say "you know what, it's cool, just throw it in the bullet, we didn't mean that other stuff, we were just kidding".
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SFC Michael Hasbun
Those instructions are for Part IV, block C of the NCOER. As you can see by the pictures, that INCLUDES the section for bullets. It is all one section.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
Since this zombie post seems to be being brought back, I should point out that the regulation has changed since this discussion took place...
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I know this is an older discussion, but I just ran across it, also as am retired I guess you can take my response with a grain of salt lol but here it is anyways.....I do not feel that it should be on the NCOER unless it is justifying an Excellence or Needs Improvement Bullet. My reasoning is thus, if they wanted to see every NCOs APFT score it wouldn't be xxx'd out on the ERB that the boards review, to me it is simple as that. By all means if an NCO scores 270+ or fails to achieve a passing score then it needs to be there as justification for the rating, otherwise no I don't feel it should be on there.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
Plus the regulation FORBIDS placing the score in there.. Lets not forget that part.
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