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No where in FM 7-22 does it state what grade of NCO can administer/grade an APFT. Now, it seems to me that if you have a lower ranking NCO administer/grade your APFT, then the Chain of Command always has a little fit. Now if NCO's can grade and officer, why can't (let's say) a corporal grade somebody with more rank? Most of us were sent to the promotion board or promoted to Corporal instead of Specialist because they had faith and trust in us. I work at a joint unit with mainly other branches and we DO NOT do organized APFT's, it's just whenever I'm able to get one done. What are your thoughts on a higher ranking NCO/Officer simply grabbing another person of lower rank to go out and conduct an APFT, especially if you aren't always able to muster up a whole team of people to conduct/administer one by the books, as in my situation?
APFT
Army Regulations
Fitness
FM 7-22
NCOs
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 87
36
36
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It doesn't matter who grades an APFT. I always "borrowed" NCOs from my sister companies to grade my company when I was a 1SG. I did the same thing when I was a BN CSM, I used NCOs from different companies to grade other companies. It's not that I didn't trust the NCOs it's just less room for someone crying the APFT was unfair etc. I used the highest ranking NCO as the NCOIC and he would sign all the 705s and 5500s.
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1SG (Join to see)
In my Battalion at Fort Bragg, after shortly taking over as 1SG several Soldiers, NCOs and even the CSM asked me why I was using NCOs from a sister unit, asking, "Is it because you don't trust your NCOs to conduct it properly?" My reply, "No, it's to show that we have nothing to hide and that I have the confidence in them to know they can pass regardless of who conducts the evaluation!" It soon became a battalion wide process.
I did have one particular Bn Cdr whose pushups were very questionable, he would life and duck his head/neck more then he would meet the verticle plane. I ensured that either myself or only several NCOs i personnally selected graded him....as they would not have given their grandmother credit if she did not perform each push-up correctly. The first time it happened he got pissed when I kept going 10-10 10- Sir you're not going down far enough 11-12-12-12...and finally I said, STOP. I explained and demonstrated to him what he was doing and then had a soldier demonstrate the proper push-up for him. Even though he was pissed, he went back to the end of the line and came back and re-did the event. Later on that day in the mess hall, he sat down with me and the CSM and said, "I was mad as hell at that moment, but didn't realize that he had been doing them wrong all that time, no one had ever said anything to me." And he made it a point to always take his PT test with the troops when scheduled on the training schedule. I told him the Soldiers knew it and had talked about among themselves, however, I told him we both made money with them when he went to the back of the line and re-did it in front of them. Me for calling him out on ti...and him for going to the back of the line and coming back through again. He still maxed, but he did it correctly.
I did have one particular Bn Cdr whose pushups were very questionable, he would life and duck his head/neck more then he would meet the verticle plane. I ensured that either myself or only several NCOs i personnally selected graded him....as they would not have given their grandmother credit if she did not perform each push-up correctly. The first time it happened he got pissed when I kept going 10-10 10- Sir you're not going down far enough 11-12-12-12...and finally I said, STOP. I explained and demonstrated to him what he was doing and then had a soldier demonstrate the proper push-up for him. Even though he was pissed, he went back to the end of the line and came back and re-did the event. Later on that day in the mess hall, he sat down with me and the CSM and said, "I was mad as hell at that moment, but didn't realize that he had been doing them wrong all that time, no one had ever said anything to me." And he made it a point to always take his PT test with the troops when scheduled on the training schedule. I told him the Soldiers knew it and had talked about among themselves, however, I told him we both made money with them when he went to the back of the line and re-did it in front of them. Me for calling him out on ti...and him for going to the back of the line and coming back through again. He still maxed, but he did it correctly.
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SGT (Join to see)
I haven't been in a unit where they borrow nco from another company to grade an apft event, I like that idea.
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SSG Warren Armitage
it does not require what is asked. As a platoon SGT I always got together with the other platoon sergeants and set up an apft and had a senior NCO be the NCOIC. if you cant trust an NCO then he or she shouldn't be wearing the stripes.
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CSM (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) - After the first ten push up are performed no restarts are allowed
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Promote only qualified personnel to NCO. Stop promoting soldiers simply because you have no reason not to but because they eptomize the Nco creed, have leadership abilities and lead by example. Once that happens it won't matter what rank of NCO you are, you can be trusted and your judgement never questioned by anyone. Currently we have the army our NCO's have trained. We have promoted too soon without reason or cause only to fill up space and look at where we are. 20 years ago an E5 SGT was God to his troops and his integrity unchallenged. Now? I am my BNs PT NCOIC and I train every competent and APFT passing NCO to conduct a fair and by the reg APFT. I will not allow higher ranking NCOS and Officers to intimidate my graders and when someone fails my APFTs no one has ever questioned the administration of the test. Be Confident, Competent and Consistent and your rank will never be an issue. My opinion.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT Suraj,
Being a free mason does not entitle a person to be above the law and regulations of the US Army. If someone was getting preferred treatment based on group affiliation that would constitute in my eyes an EO complaint. NCO's need to to live the Creed and enforce standards fairly across the board. If that is too hard to do then they need to step aside.
Being a free mason does not entitle a person to be above the law and regulations of the US Army. If someone was getting preferred treatment based on group affiliation that would constitute in my eyes an EO complaint. NCO's need to to live the Creed and enforce standards fairly across the board. If that is too hard to do then they need to step aside.
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SFC(P) (Join to see)
I believe he was referring mainly to nepotism. That's how I read it anyway. If that wasn't the case, he can speak up for himself and explain.
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LTC James L Guerrieri Sr
SGT Bussing? SSG Philips was referencing Sgt Suraj Dave's post inferring that different community service groups, i.e. "Free Masons" or Lions, Elks, etc may have a tendency to help one another pass the APFT. We all understood what he meant. There is no call for cussing. In his example, of course, there would be breeches of moral character and integrity. Therefor, those NCOs, have no place in our military. I hope that helps you better understand what Freemasonry (in his post) has to do with this discussion. Hooah! :-)
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Any NCO can grade an APFT. I used to get bumped from grading because I stuck too close to the regs. Some of the officers I'd grade who wanted to max their pushups wouldn't even come close to breaking the plane and their lower body never moved along with the upper body. I was "counseled" for grading a LTC starting with "zero... zero... zero... zero" until I stopped him, explained what he was doing wrong and sent him to the back of the line for retesting. He wasn't too happy with me after that and neither was the rest of the staff.
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SSG Warren Armitage
lol I did the samething with a brigade commander of an infantry brigade and I actually got a coin for it. the BDE CSM went to chew me out and he stopped him and told him that I was correct in doing so which told me he knew he wasn't doing the pushups correctly and was man enough to admit it. he then went to the back of the line and ensured that all of the rest of the staff and officers present were doing the test as required. I know it is rare that you do find officers like that but still stick to the guidelines and your guns.
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SFC (Join to see)
I understand how he would be pissed, but he would've definitely shined bright if he said out loud how you were correct and he was wrong.
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SFC (Join to see)
Nowhere in the regulation or APFT instructions does it say that a Soldier must break the plane during the push-up event. It says the must be parallel with the marching surface. I hate when NCOS create their own standard.
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SSG Dan Willmont
Just curious, where in the regulation does it say the individual being tested has to “break the plane?” Because what I have seen is that the upper arms must be “at least parallel” they can be parallel without breaking your imaginary plane.
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