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I have noticed on RP that anytime a discussion on how to deal with a Soldier's negative attitude or performance there's always two types of answers.
1. Show the SM that you care about them and cradle them and hand feed them responses (Support MOSs)
2. Smoke session / negative counseling (Combat Arms MOSs)
I also believe there are a lot of people on here that say what people want to read and not what they actually do.
Now granted there are a lot of for lack of a better term POGs that smoke their Soldiers and there are some Combat Arms leaders that cradle their Soldiers also. But on a given day with a Combat Arms Soldiers vs a POG Soldier the CA Soldier with be more respectful, show proper courtesy, and follow orders better than the POGs.
So who's leadership style is really better???
1. Show the SM that you care about them and cradle them and hand feed them responses (Support MOSs)
2. Smoke session / negative counseling (Combat Arms MOSs)
I also believe there are a lot of people on here that say what people want to read and not what they actually do.
Now granted there are a lot of for lack of a better term POGs that smoke their Soldiers and there are some Combat Arms leaders that cradle their Soldiers also. But on a given day with a Combat Arms Soldiers vs a POG Soldier the CA Soldier with be more respectful, show proper courtesy, and follow orders better than the POGs.
So who's leadership style is really better???
Posted in these groups: 
Counseling
Smoking
Counseling Smoking
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 19
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I don't think this is an accurate assessment of leadership for either combat arms or combat support jobs. I am a 35P (as you call POG), but I was also an 11B from PV2 to SGT. I have seen leaders in both fields respond both ways, and I don't think there is an imbalance either way. I think that the problem is when leaders, regardless of MOS, don't know how to most appropriately address the problem at hand. There isn't a "one size fits all" solution to everything either. Negative attitudes or poor performance might be fixed with a smoke session in certain situations, but often times it won't do anything to fix the problem. Leadership isn't about being harsh to Soldiers, nor is it about cradling Soldiers; it is about knowing your Soldiers, enforcing standards, and setting a professional example for them to follow.<div><br></div><div>So with that, I guess my answer is that the best leadership style isn't found in either, it is about adapting to the situation and making the appropriate decision to correct the deficiency.</div>
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
SFC T,
I appreciate your input and it's good to hear someone say that neither way works.
I believe we all understand that nothing will work all the time. I see NCOs sometimes smoke Soldiers for fun or because they're bored and I think that has an impact on whether or not a smoke session works. In my opinion the smoke sessions work nearly all the time! The threat of being counseled scares Soldiers and they prefer to be smoked and straighten up rather than it go down on paper!
Thanks again
I appreciate your input and it's good to hear someone say that neither way works.
I believe we all understand that nothing will work all the time. I see NCOs sometimes smoke Soldiers for fun or because they're bored and I think that has an impact on whether or not a smoke session works. In my opinion the smoke sessions work nearly all the time! The threat of being counseled scares Soldiers and they prefer to be smoked and straighten up rather than it go down on paper!
Thanks again
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MSgt (Join to see)
Well said...its all about finding that balance.
An imbalanced leadership approach is not leadership. Leaders influence and inspire, and you cant do both using either of the afformentioned ineffective approaches.
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SPC (Join to see)
From a junior enlisted point of view, I completely agree with you, SFC. Soldiers don't always see the immediate effects of paperwork when it's something small. Also a 35P, I've asked my leadership why smoke sessions haven't been implemented here as punishment, and got the response that they are no longer allowed. In many cases I feel that a smoke session is much more effective, they're just not happening.
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SSG (Join to see)
I have little spiel I give every incoming troop. The first part is never to talk to CID without a lawyer present and never go to NJP with talking to a legal aid.
The second part is that I am prohibited from causing them to do PT as a corrective training. Any command to do so may be answered with "No, I want the counseling" at that point I will do the paper.
I think only two or three have requested paper only corrections. The rest just push. As a combat arms guy in a support unit, I find that my soldiers are much more positive and responsive than others in the unit.
One of my SPCs explained it this way, "Sergeant, with you when I do something wrong I do pushups and it is done. When I deal with SSG XXXXX he keeps bringing it up over and over. And even if I didn't screw up with you its 20 pushups and then you listen to what I have to say."
I resented the implication that I punished with out knowing the full scope of the issue but the SPC is pretty smart so I probably do.
The second part is that I am prohibited from causing them to do PT as a corrective training. Any command to do so may be answered with "No, I want the counseling" at that point I will do the paper.
I think only two or three have requested paper only corrections. The rest just push. As a combat arms guy in a support unit, I find that my soldiers are much more positive and responsive than others in the unit.
One of my SPCs explained it this way, "Sergeant, with you when I do something wrong I do pushups and it is done. When I deal with SSG XXXXX he keeps bringing it up over and over. And even if I didn't screw up with you its 20 pushups and then you listen to what I have to say."
I resented the implication that I punished with out knowing the full scope of the issue but the SPC is pretty smart so I probably do.
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Well as a support mos Drill Sergeant, I can tell you that smoking doesn't work as well as people think. You can only take a person to muscle failure in reality. And what happens when you're trying to smoke a stud? You have to get creative with corrective training. For example if a soldier forgets to go back to the position of attention from parade rest before moving out and you smoke them what does it do really? But if you make that soldier go from parade rest to attention over and over for a length of time it'll be muscle memory.
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SGT Howlett, my Platoon Leader, who is prior enlisted, said to always engage soldiers at the level they understand, in order to be most effective. Some soldiers only understand and respond to four-letter-words and physical punishment; the others understand multisyllabic discourse and corrective training that engages their critical thinking skills.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
You and your PL are right! There's nothing like a good smoking for some Soldiers it's what they need! And others need to be shown how their actions affect everyone else for example I had a Soldier who was slow at everything. We put him in charge of cleaning our line prior to close out formation and have him a time limit to see it through. The other Soldiers he was in charge of took their sweet time and his task wasn't accomplished and after that he learned his lesson and realized he needed to have a better work ethic because it wasn't only affecting him.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT Howlett are you implying that all Soldier's would only understand a good "smoking" as corrective training? Your example looks like a sink or swim task, you gave an objective, made it seem as if he were responsible for it, but didn't empower him with the authority to lead. Perhaps I'm a bit biased as I may task my subordinates to accomplish a bit more complex a task than end of the day clean up. Work ethic, only accounts for an individuals actions. In my line of work i'm more likely to work solo, than to have a whole team to accomplish my mission. In mentoring Soldiers of similar duty, I need to make sure they can do the same.
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