Posted on Oct 30, 2016
How smart is it to have VA Employees like my Air Force Vet Adjudicating my Navy Combat Ship Deck Crew Sailor VA disability claims?
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2014 VA Audit show 30% employed r Vets. Of those 30% odds r civilian w/no concept/or an Air Force Vet w/no understanding of 1 day at Sea in Deck Crew, now adjudicating Spine/Musculoskeletal Injury Illness caused by Ergonomics Stressors of such duty assignment. This outrageous scenario is a similar to a golfer judging the disability report of an NFL football player? As well I could not understand Air Force Disability Stressors.
Posted in these groups: 
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)
Disability
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) Disability
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 8
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This has been one of if not the most informative discussions on RP I've ever read. Thank you, both. This should be forwarded to the VFW and AL for dissemination and discussion.
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PO3 Aaron Hassay
A lot of reading and thinking and real life experience creates such inspection. I did not serve simply to be only exposed perfection. Now I learn about the imperfection. It seems we keep our dress uniforms spotless and the brass shined on the ship. But the nuts and bolts need inspection. These Nuts and Bolts of the VA are literally doing some odd things. For one they claim how broke they are, then they pay people at the VA Vet or non Vet who have no direct context to your unique duty assignment, to adjudicate a very specific detailed nuanced military stressors that create the chronic illnesses you suffer from.
So I ask if "they" the money people in the back room, always claim they are broke, working on a negative budget, then are these VA people and buildings that house these VA people, and the paper that they print the VA paper work, and all the time and energy it takes to do all this on a day in day out basis, doing it all for free donating their time because they are do good semaritans who want to help out VETS who were operational?
Is this VA system actually paying the government, to use the VA label, for a marketing fee , much like a corporation, who knows on the back end they benefit more, buying the rights to the name of the NFL Football Stadium, where all the fans come and spend all their money and get drunk and go crazy every week?
My working assumption is that the VA is being financed by a sum of money equal to or more to deny claims/benefits of service for operational VETS and dependents. This typical 3 year cycle of application-denial-appeal-denial injury illness veteran disability process starting at the local VA Oakland Regional Center has a real sad possible deathly human toll on a real injured suffering chronically ill operational VET who deserves all the paychecks/apologies of all the VA adjudicators who denied him/her, because they possibly were never brave enough to step in front of a recruiter at 18 years of age, never dedicated their existance to the notion of their country at 18, never did 1 pushup or 1 military burpee to prove their obedience to the notion of their own coutnry, who have not one clue of one day of an 18 year old in uniform operationally for 1 second scared for their future or life operationally in his/her duty assignment, and there for ignored evidence, never made one positive beneficial assumption of service connection for the ill operational VET, .
Could all the VA budget actually be re-administered re-allocated, with a ton of what the law calls "PRESUMPTION" to operational vets who are now after service for whatever reason, living below the poverty line, who were once recruited healthy 18 recruit with no prior history of mental or physical problems.
So I ask if "they" the money people in the back room, always claim they are broke, working on a negative budget, then are these VA people and buildings that house these VA people, and the paper that they print the VA paper work, and all the time and energy it takes to do all this on a day in day out basis, doing it all for free donating their time because they are do good semaritans who want to help out VETS who were operational?
Is this VA system actually paying the government, to use the VA label, for a marketing fee , much like a corporation, who knows on the back end they benefit more, buying the rights to the name of the NFL Football Stadium, where all the fans come and spend all their money and get drunk and go crazy every week?
My working assumption is that the VA is being financed by a sum of money equal to or more to deny claims/benefits of service for operational VETS and dependents. This typical 3 year cycle of application-denial-appeal-denial injury illness veteran disability process starting at the local VA Oakland Regional Center has a real sad possible deathly human toll on a real injured suffering chronically ill operational VET who deserves all the paychecks/apologies of all the VA adjudicators who denied him/her, because they possibly were never brave enough to step in front of a recruiter at 18 years of age, never dedicated their existance to the notion of their country at 18, never did 1 pushup or 1 military burpee to prove their obedience to the notion of their own coutnry, who have not one clue of one day of an 18 year old in uniform operationally for 1 second scared for their future or life operationally in his/her duty assignment, and there for ignored evidence, never made one positive beneficial assumption of service connection for the ill operational VET, .
Could all the VA budget actually be re-administered re-allocated, with a ton of what the law calls "PRESUMPTION" to operational vets who are now after service for whatever reason, living below the poverty line, who were once recruited healthy 18 recruit with no prior history of mental or physical problems.
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SFC Ernie Rau
PO3 Aaron Hassay - We need and deserve real change. I will blame Congress, for the last 8 years both parties said "elect me, I will do something ". But they all get caught up with finger pointing. The bills I think are written, the leadership is looking somewhere else...until election time. Divided government has its issues, I think this is one. Aren't all veterans bills that come up for a vote passed with great support on both sides? Maybe not, but I think so. And as time goes by, with nothing done, Veterans continue to suffer. We pointed fingers at certain VA's for having separate lists and some Vet's dying...but isn't Congress doing the exact same thing? Maybe not, but it has the same result.
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I think the larger issue with the VA is that they are full of people who have ZERO Idea what people go through in the branch's.... and they don't care. You question is correct, it is idiotic for someone with no background to evaluate injury claims stemming from those work environments.
Here is another thought... How much money do you think the VA would save by having people who know the environment assess the claims? People who have been there will be able to spot the shammers and the fakes a lot faster than those who have no idea of the language or world we work in. This applies to all branches. I know what happens on a Big deck on a flight line and on a Little boy, I don't know anything about the subs. What does the Air Force know about Ships, What does the Army know about Flight lines, What does the Navy know about Artillery positions....
Here is another thought... How much money do you think the VA would save by having people who know the environment assess the claims? People who have been there will be able to spot the shammers and the fakes a lot faster than those who have no idea of the language or world we work in. This applies to all branches. I know what happens on a Big deck on a flight line and on a Little boy, I don't know anything about the subs. What does the Air Force know about Ships, What does the Army know about Flight lines, What does the Navy know about Artillery positions....
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PO3 Aaron Hassay
What you represent is so simply efficiently correct, and much more efficient system to employ that would indeed easily spot the shammers.
I can not fathom a if a VA Vet BM1 or BMC would just give a disability service connection to another BM who he did not know personally based on sympathy or empathy. But at least they would have real world understanding, and a much more reasonable adjutication. My adjuticator makes not one mention in my SOC of " Consideration to be accorded time, place, and circumstances of service in Deck starting 18 on an FFG as a real skinny kid "
Those FFGs had employed little fin stabilizers to try to attempt with no noticeable correction the pitch and roll of the ship, compared the CGs and DDGs. The FFGs rode the sea very heavy and CNA Center Navy Analysis infact has seperate reports online downloadable reporting that FFGs compared against other surface combatants were the most stressful platform for crew, not to include the additinal important stressors involved of either rate BM vrs YN. The Air Force Vet had no confidence or understanding in these reports as my specific name was not in the reports. A BM or First LT or basically any other NAVY Vet would be able to take all this information in and have a more reliable assesment that I could be confident in and have conversation about, compared a someone who only saw a Navy Ship from shore or in a Magazine.
Never asked for sympathy. But my back, my spine, my current MRI diagnosis of herniation's stenosis and degeneration that I need to do daily intense physical therapy for just to walk and stay away from surgery is real and was not there noted at USMEPCOM initial accession.
I can not fathom a if a VA Vet BM1 or BMC would just give a disability service connection to another BM who he did not know personally based on sympathy or empathy. But at least they would have real world understanding, and a much more reasonable adjutication. My adjuticator makes not one mention in my SOC of " Consideration to be accorded time, place, and circumstances of service in Deck starting 18 on an FFG as a real skinny kid "
Those FFGs had employed little fin stabilizers to try to attempt with no noticeable correction the pitch and roll of the ship, compared the CGs and DDGs. The FFGs rode the sea very heavy and CNA Center Navy Analysis infact has seperate reports online downloadable reporting that FFGs compared against other surface combatants were the most stressful platform for crew, not to include the additinal important stressors involved of either rate BM vrs YN. The Air Force Vet had no confidence or understanding in these reports as my specific name was not in the reports. A BM or First LT or basically any other NAVY Vet would be able to take all this information in and have a more reliable assesment that I could be confident in and have conversation about, compared a someone who only saw a Navy Ship from shore or in a Magazine.
Never asked for sympathy. But my back, my spine, my current MRI diagnosis of herniation's stenosis and degeneration that I need to do daily intense physical therapy for just to walk and stay away from surgery is real and was not there noted at USMEPCOM initial accession.
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CPO (Join to see)
Sadly the VA is a 100 year long failed system full of corruption and incompetence. I hope they get you straightened out so you get the support you need to function. This is the kind of crap that really piss's me off about the VA.
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Does not matter one tiny bit who rates your claim. The rater needs to know the law and apply it to your claim. They don't make medical judgments: that is done by the health side--VHA.
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PO3 Aaron Hassay
Capt Michael Greene - Mr. Greene,
Thank You or god bless or sympathy at the same time, new word needed to express all three in 1, long tradition of family military for your service sacrifice lived.
I am looking to do functional things to change the VA who is basically been to me a system that will not show dignity or pride or safety or presumption or open arms as if you are now the leper weight they must discourage when you come to them in pure need for help and understanding.
I have functional ways to do this. It is just like any other movement that needs to fix a problem. If we live in a society of laws and systems that are supposed to work on an ethical and human rights kind of way, then the problem is fixable.
I think the forms are my focus on revamping to make the service member not have to reprove what is already proven as chronic stressors already documented as happening for certain duty assignments.
But at the VA they make me reprove what duty assignment on a Navy Combat Guided Missle Frigate in Deck Department can do to the body over the course of years.
It is like an NFL Player going into the doctor and the doctor saying prove to me that playing NFL can hurt you and is painful.
That is about the same ludicrous backwards process going on with VA adjudication.
I have to prove the military to the VA who supposedly knows about the military.
Specific Claim Adjudicators for specific knowledge of specific claims based on specific duty assignment, like you did would be first thing to fix, with proper forms to clarify duty assignment is being registered in SOC Statement of Case. I will be more precise with more discussion. I am just of free thought right now.
I understand the saying "OTHER PEOPLE HAVE IT WORSE" Guess what my mom used to say the same thing to me, when I was trying to talk to her, about some things that I was really having problems with in the Navy when I was about 22. But she had been through so much herself by that time, that ignoring such pain, and saying others have it worse, was the coping mechanism. But to me now I see it as a coping mechanism that does not fix anything. It just ignores that which needs to be fixed. If not fixed the same problem persist indefinitely. It is as if someone picked your pocket, or stole our car, or beat you up, and then you calmly say "someone else has it worse then you". But that thief will do it to someone else until we find creative ways to pay it forward to stop the thief, therefore we will not let someone else get injured and feel the pain of someone who is bad. And never confronting your wrondoer, never makes the person who was wronged feel good or justified. Infact a negative health response may happen, and you become a blind man who does not know how to protect yourself when someone takes maliciously from you.
That is just analogy or allegory to be understood how you might.
But I think you should fill the VA with your sorrow and pain and suffering and need for help and also help me if you can find it in yourself fix your quoted
""I noticed that VA has every kind of...every kind of bad thing in it, helping and hindering delivering our benefits. Sometimes, it's because somebody doesn't care. Most of the time, it's lack of training on very complex statute law."""
I know you said they have good things at the VA. But I am not focused on that. I am focused on the "BAD THINGS".
My long story that is about equal to "Platos Allegory of the Cave".
I was a child who lived in a Cave who did not know his missing father was a ill Vietnam Combat Vet. I was a child who lived in a Cave until I found out after my own service that my father was who he actually was 100% Service Connected Incompetent. I was a child who lived in a Cave the VA would never recognize as a dependent living with a single mom in women's shelters with my dad becoming ill unable to maintain his family any-longer disappearing
That is just the start of it.
Thank You or god bless or sympathy at the same time, new word needed to express all three in 1, long tradition of family military for your service sacrifice lived.
I am looking to do functional things to change the VA who is basically been to me a system that will not show dignity or pride or safety or presumption or open arms as if you are now the leper weight they must discourage when you come to them in pure need for help and understanding.
I have functional ways to do this. It is just like any other movement that needs to fix a problem. If we live in a society of laws and systems that are supposed to work on an ethical and human rights kind of way, then the problem is fixable.
I think the forms are my focus on revamping to make the service member not have to reprove what is already proven as chronic stressors already documented as happening for certain duty assignments.
But at the VA they make me reprove what duty assignment on a Navy Combat Guided Missle Frigate in Deck Department can do to the body over the course of years.
It is like an NFL Player going into the doctor and the doctor saying prove to me that playing NFL can hurt you and is painful.
That is about the same ludicrous backwards process going on with VA adjudication.
I have to prove the military to the VA who supposedly knows about the military.
Specific Claim Adjudicators for specific knowledge of specific claims based on specific duty assignment, like you did would be first thing to fix, with proper forms to clarify duty assignment is being registered in SOC Statement of Case. I will be more precise with more discussion. I am just of free thought right now.
I understand the saying "OTHER PEOPLE HAVE IT WORSE" Guess what my mom used to say the same thing to me, when I was trying to talk to her, about some things that I was really having problems with in the Navy when I was about 22. But she had been through so much herself by that time, that ignoring such pain, and saying others have it worse, was the coping mechanism. But to me now I see it as a coping mechanism that does not fix anything. It just ignores that which needs to be fixed. If not fixed the same problem persist indefinitely. It is as if someone picked your pocket, or stole our car, or beat you up, and then you calmly say "someone else has it worse then you". But that thief will do it to someone else until we find creative ways to pay it forward to stop the thief, therefore we will not let someone else get injured and feel the pain of someone who is bad. And never confronting your wrondoer, never makes the person who was wronged feel good or justified. Infact a negative health response may happen, and you become a blind man who does not know how to protect yourself when someone takes maliciously from you.
That is just analogy or allegory to be understood how you might.
But I think you should fill the VA with your sorrow and pain and suffering and need for help and also help me if you can find it in yourself fix your quoted
""I noticed that VA has every kind of...every kind of bad thing in it, helping and hindering delivering our benefits. Sometimes, it's because somebody doesn't care. Most of the time, it's lack of training on very complex statute law."""
I know you said they have good things at the VA. But I am not focused on that. I am focused on the "BAD THINGS".
My long story that is about equal to "Platos Allegory of the Cave".
I was a child who lived in a Cave who did not know his missing father was a ill Vietnam Combat Vet. I was a child who lived in a Cave until I found out after my own service that my father was who he actually was 100% Service Connected Incompetent. I was a child who lived in a Cave the VA would never recognize as a dependent living with a single mom in women's shelters with my dad becoming ill unable to maintain his family any-longer disappearing
That is just the start of it.
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Capt Michael Greene
PO3 Aaron Hassay - Thanks for helping me understand your point of view better. I want to add my two cents, which I think might help clarify and bring light on your path to success.
First, although you're right that we have a government of laws, it is also filled with irrational humans. I admit the possibility that I--or you--might be wrong.
Second, I got a feeling from reading your post that you might be dealing with a pre-existing condition that was exacerbated by your service. I hope you have a good advisor from one of the service organizations like the DAV. We found a VSO in the Paralyzed Veterans of America who really took us by the hand and made the system work.
If VA wants you to show a nexus that ties your disability to your service, you'll have to show that nexus.
Good luck.
First, although you're right that we have a government of laws, it is also filled with irrational humans. I admit the possibility that I--or you--might be wrong.
Second, I got a feeling from reading your post that you might be dealing with a pre-existing condition that was exacerbated by your service. I hope you have a good advisor from one of the service organizations like the DAV. We found a VSO in the Paralyzed Veterans of America who really took us by the hand and made the system work.
If VA wants you to show a nexus that ties your disability to your service, you'll have to show that nexus.
Good luck.
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PO3 Aaron Hassay
Capt Michael Greene - Pre-Existing Conditions USC Tilte 38 states must be found at accesion recruit physical rendered and noted as such. I passed that recruit physical with a Physical Profile or AKA PULHES Code-coded on all service members since possibly the 1960's, as healthy fit for duty. Any negative health change downgrading my PULHES Physical Profile after accession is basically covered by service.
Ways they could get out of that is if I was diagnosed by a doctor with some disease and hid it at recruit entry accession and it was discovered later when I was attempting to get a disability for service or an injury illness created in commission of a crime or lastly self injury like shooting myself in the foot to get of duty etc...
How does a young 18 year old go from a varsity athlete letterman graduating high school on time-meritorious e2 advancement award best recruit bootcamp graduation GreatLakes Chicago 18 right after high school to honorably discharged without a separation physical ill and sick miserably by 26 unable to keep a job and soon homeless confused.
Without discussing the details of my 8 yr military enlistment from 18-26 then it was flying saucers and aliens possibly who shot space juice on me for fun to see what would happen as some fun experiment I suppose.
But if 1 of logic looks at my duty assignment then it will soon see the error the flaw the direct reasons the best recruit in bootcamp went into illness and darkness.
If one does not examine my duty assignment for these problems and me the victim of such problems then again I was born a dumb mute, and the initial recruit physical I passed was all fake and forgery, ill performed, and I will be held accountable for those errors.
If one looks at my childhood I was still a varsity athlete letterman graduating on time and the best recruit meritorious awarded with a struggling single mother who was forced into a sadness few will know because she struggled poor with 3 kids to fend for with no child support and no VA support, when my father became to ill to take care of himself well or the family and dissapeared and later discovered a VA 100% service connected incompetent ill Vietnam Combat Vet 1966-1968.
I am preparing for about the 20th bad holidays.
The VA has labeled my service connection at 0% rating.
My only income is SSDI $900 for the same illness I am now VA service connected now.
How can I be on SSDI 100% for the same illness and VA 0% rated compensation for the same illness that all together will make me poor since childhood and now 40. I could not do enough for my country. What did I do wrong?
I am at the local Oakland VA regional Center which last year was congressional investigated after whistle blower blew that over 10,000 claims were never even processed.
Ways they could get out of that is if I was diagnosed by a doctor with some disease and hid it at recruit entry accession and it was discovered later when I was attempting to get a disability for service or an injury illness created in commission of a crime or lastly self injury like shooting myself in the foot to get of duty etc...
How does a young 18 year old go from a varsity athlete letterman graduating high school on time-meritorious e2 advancement award best recruit bootcamp graduation GreatLakes Chicago 18 right after high school to honorably discharged without a separation physical ill and sick miserably by 26 unable to keep a job and soon homeless confused.
Without discussing the details of my 8 yr military enlistment from 18-26 then it was flying saucers and aliens possibly who shot space juice on me for fun to see what would happen as some fun experiment I suppose.
But if 1 of logic looks at my duty assignment then it will soon see the error the flaw the direct reasons the best recruit in bootcamp went into illness and darkness.
If one does not examine my duty assignment for these problems and me the victim of such problems then again I was born a dumb mute, and the initial recruit physical I passed was all fake and forgery, ill performed, and I will be held accountable for those errors.
If one looks at my childhood I was still a varsity athlete letterman graduating on time and the best recruit meritorious awarded with a struggling single mother who was forced into a sadness few will know because she struggled poor with 3 kids to fend for with no child support and no VA support, when my father became to ill to take care of himself well or the family and dissapeared and later discovered a VA 100% service connected incompetent ill Vietnam Combat Vet 1966-1968.
I am preparing for about the 20th bad holidays.
The VA has labeled my service connection at 0% rating.
My only income is SSDI $900 for the same illness I am now VA service connected now.
How can I be on SSDI 100% for the same illness and VA 0% rated compensation for the same illness that all together will make me poor since childhood and now 40. I could not do enough for my country. What did I do wrong?
I am at the local Oakland VA regional Center which last year was congressional investigated after whistle blower blew that over 10,000 claims were never even processed.
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Capt Michael Greene
PO3 Aaron Hassay - Suggest you visit the website at http://vets.yuku.com/ and ask questions there. There are a lot of veterans there who understand the VA very well.
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