Posted on Jan 14, 2016
PFC Graduate
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I am currently a security hold in an IET company more than a month after graduating from a 36 week MOS. I've been informed by a few of my NCOs that this is against regulation because I am not supposed to be in contact with IET status soldiers after two weeks post-graduation. I have been authorized to wear a unit patch but the cadre still requires me to have and-or be a battle buddy to IET soldiers. Similar situations within the brigade have resulted in soldiers who are flagged or being held for other schools such as airborne being moved to permanent party barracks but my company has refused to move me out. I would simply like to see the regulation for myself and have not been able to find it in TR 350-6. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Posted in these groups: TRADOCAr Army Regulations
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Responses: 9
CSM Carl Cunningham
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Hmmm....well you cannot find it in TR 350-6 because it does not exist. If you are a security hold, and your MOS requires the clearance, then you are not officially MOS qualified. This means you are still in student status which is probably the real reason you are still in the company. There should be no issue with you having contact with students in the course, since you are still that status. Now, you NCO's may not want you to have contact with them for a various number of reasons, but against regulation should not be one of them.
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CW4 Unmanned Aircraft Systems Operations Technician
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>1 y
PFC (Join to see) - " I have gained all that I can from it and simply don't believe it is a healthy environment for me anymore."
I remember when I was in high school thinking how lucky kindergarteners were for getting nap-time in the middle of the day. I was thinking how much simpler life was back then and how I should have taken the time to enjoy it more. Years later as a Rear-D Commander I would look at a group of junior enlisted sitting around on their phones remembering how much simpler life was as a junior enlisted when all you had to do was be at the right place, at the right time, in the right uniform and you'd get money deposited into your bank account, 3 free meals a day, a free room with free air condition, water, and electricity. My heart-felt advise to you is to enjoy having the DS yell at you. I bet they don't even let you have a cell phone at work. Enjoy that. Ask them if you can take an 8-week college course with Excelsior College while you wait. Traditional college was difficult for me. That is why I enlisted in the Air Force 20 years ago. I only recently restarted college courses. If I had known how easy Excelsior College was 4 deployments ago, I'd probably already have a masters degree. If you request to do this while on hold status, it will impress the shit out of everyone around you and you'll enjoy doing it since you will have absolutely zero distractions like internet, games, porn, and everything else the typical Soldier at their first duty station does.
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SSG Robert Webster
SSG Robert Webster
>1 y
CW4 (Join to see) - Excellent advice.
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PFC Graduate
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>1 y
I appreciate you all giving me your input on this matter. I'm sure my 1sg and commander would be very likely to let me take college courses as CW4 Edgar had suggested since they have been very helpful and accommodating to my situation here. As I had mentioned previously they have authorized me to wear a unit patch and I have a lot of the benefits that come with this said privilege Just not actual permanent party status. As far as IET life goes I have no problem admitting that I've got it made in comparison to the rest of the soldiers in my company, I am just antsy to experience more and move forward since I have already spent a quarter of my first contract in TRADOC and all of my peers have already moved on to their first duty station. That being said I will continue to be patient and just hope for my clearance to be approved soon, not that I have much of a choice in that matter haha.
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SSG Dale London
SSG Dale London
6 y
CW4 (Join to see) - Sage advice, Chief.
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CSM Command Sergeant Major
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First, I would like thank SGM Carl Cunningham for his sincere patience in responding your borderline condescending tone. If you were an 18 year old kid, I probably would have just chuckled at your naivety while drinking my coffee. But you are a 24 year old man with a little life experience under your belt and therefore should have some sort of perspective of the "the bigger picture". There is no room for a sense of "self entitlement" in this organization. You are now part of a diverse team that makes up for less than 1% of our population. We are brothers and sisters working together in various capacities with a common goal and objective. Please refer to the "redundant" line two of the Soldier Creed as you "live to the standard the Army has helped you set for yourself". I will now provide you a lesson based on our creed as Non Commissioned Officers. Please refer to the third paragraph (of the NCO Creed) for my implementation of the following lesson/guidance/mentorship.
Think of Army regulations just like you would think of a Federal Law. They are guidelines put into place a a senior level that give us guidance in countless aspects of our day-to-day lives and operations but they do not necessarily apply to every situation. There are "grey areas" that don't necessarily pertain to current guidance. The Army delegates the authority to write further guidance to subordinate command levels to identify these "grey areas". You will often hear "you can add to, but you can't take away from" when speaking about Army regulations. If a specific situation isn't identified in the TRADOC regulation (ie. 350-6) it may be identified at your installation Brigade, Battalion, or Company level policy guidance or standard operating procedure.
AR 350-6 Chapter 3 Paragraph 3-2 B (4) gives your cadre the authority to assign you as the "adhoc Battle Buddy". As a DS I would much rather use a hold over for a battle buddy then have a Soldier miss training for no reason.
AR 350-6 Chapter 4 Paragraph 4-9 and Table 4-3 identifies security clearance requirements for your current MOS. If you read Chapter 4 Paragraph G Number (3) The 120th day from the PSI submission date, at which time the Soldier will either be reclassified into an MOS not requiring security clearance eligibility or processed for discharge.
The First Sergeants Barrack's Program (FSBP 2020) guidance from Installation Command (IMCOM)
"Permanent Party" barracks or Unaccompanied Personnel Housing (UPH) is utilized for traditional Permanent Party Soldiers. I can completely understand why your cadre want you housed with the IET Soldiers. It is one less thing to worry about. If your housed in UPH they are creating additional work for themselves for no reason. It is much easier for Command and Control (C2) purposes to have you housed with the rest of the trainees.
To identify a few of your other comments or inquiries below:
You are not "eligible for permanent party status" because you are not and will not be assigned to a specific paragraph and line number (position) in your organization. There has to be a specific position that you are slotted into. You would have to receive "official orders" cut, assigning you somewhere's within your current unit and then be assigned a sponsor and in-process into the installation. (alot of work) All of this is not going to happen for the simple reason that "you don't want to live in the barracks".
Congratulations on your promotion! AR 600-8-19 Enlisted Promotions and Reductions guidance states you are automatically promoted to PFC after completing 12 months Time In Service (TIS) and 4 months Time In Grade (TIG). "Everyone gets a ribbon for participation!!!!" Your lack of disciplinary actions should be commended? Thank you for not violating the VALUES that serve as our organization's foundation.
And last but not least you have "gained all that you can from being in IET status"? How about you help the other Soldiers in your organization who haven't "gained all they can". Assist them in areas of weakness. Take some of the burden off of your cadres shoulders.
In closing, you are a 24 year old man. Instead wasting time trying to find a regulation that gets you out of your "cumbersome and redundant" living conditions utilize this time to learn about your craft and basic Soldiering. Please do not be that Soldier that cadre has to give "special attention" to. The last thing you would want them to do is call your gaining FORSCOM unit and let them know they have a problem child on the way. I would be more concerned about gaining your security clearance than petty BS. No clearance means either discharge or reclass...........
What are your feelings about being in the Infantry?
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PFC Graduate
PFC (Join to see)
>1 y
I understand all of that Master Sergeant, and I never intended to seem condescending or disrespectful toward anybody. I sincerely apologize if I came off that way. I have and will continue to do what is asked of me without complaining, I was asking for guidance and received it promptly.
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SSG Dale London
SSG Dale London
6 y
PFC (Join to see) - Hey - it's a soldier's prerogative to complain - we all do it. Just don't let it get in the way of being a good soldier.
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SFC UH-60 Helicopter Repairer
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You are in a IET unit. You are IET until you arrive at your first duty station, then you will truly be considered permanent party. Once you are permanent party soldier you are not supposed to converse with IET soldiers. Same goes for cadre. They cannot have contact for 6 months past the soldiers arrival to their first assignment.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
MAJ Ronnie Reams
4 y
I must be missing something. How can permanent party personnel not converse with trainees and get their jobs done. Back in 1965 when I was a company clerk for a BCT company, it would have been difficult to not converse with trainees and get job done. Same-same for cooks, armorer and supply sergeant. Seems not a very well thought out process.
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