Posted on Nov 30, 2015
What are your Pro's and Con's to the new AF promotion system?
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Technical Sergeant Promotion cycle has begun with the new rack and stack promotion. How do you feel this will help, hurt or do nothing to change the prior system.
Posted in these groups: 
Air Force
Promotions
Air Force Promotions
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 13
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For me, the pros are yet to be seen...as are the cons for that matter. One con that I see already though and one that bugs the life out of me is that instead of holding poor raters accountable, we changed the system to be one that made it harder for them to mess up. There were individuals out there that were using the old system appropriately and now that flexibility is out of their hands. If I am a rater in a DSD unit (MTI, MTL, PME, Tech Training, Thunderbirds, etc.) and I have a full unit of hand picked NCOs, all of which were competitively selected for their position, you are telling me that only 5% of those NCOs deserve the top rating? I don't buy it. You can't tell me they are the best of the best one day and then second class the next day. The thing I find funniest though is that the old system is the one that produced the very E-9s that decided it no longer worked. You telling me that Chief Cody didn't receive a promotion assist from his off-duty record? He made it purely on his job performance? This system will create the same heartburn that everyone before it has produced.
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SMSgt (Join to see)
PO1 Andrew Gardiner - While those are good points, our promotion system doesn't allow for those type of statements (#1 of..., #2 of...etc.) in our performance reports with the exception of MSgt and SMSgt but even then you can only use those statements for the top 10% and 20% respectively. So I can't say he is my #1 TSgt, or he would be #3 but I ran out of quotas...it isn't allowed.
In regards to your last statement, the issue is that we receive promotion points based on the final rating of the EPR. So an individual on honor guard receiving a "3" will get significantly lower points than the basketball hander that gets a "5". (the actual number depends on many things but it could be as much as 50 points less). Making up 50 points through the other promotion factors can be very tough to accomplish.
In regards to your last statement, the issue is that we receive promotion points based on the final rating of the EPR. So an individual on honor guard receiving a "3" will get significantly lower points than the basketball hander that gets a "5". (the actual number depends on many things but it could be as much as 50 points less). Making up 50 points through the other promotion factors can be very tough to accomplish.
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SMSgt (Join to see)
PO1 Andrew Gardiner - I think we do just fine ;) Honestly, people bithced about the old system but I think it was effective. There will always be that portion of people that got passed over and thus feel screwed by the man. The AF has laid out a very easy to understand list of expectations in AFI 36-2618 and yet people decided to not meet those expectations and then say they got hosed. I am by no means a perfect airman but I did my job well, "checked the blocks" in the whole person concept and ended up getting promoted to E8. That is still the way it is. The old system was fair...you made it all the way to E7 purely by testing. Not one person got promoted to E7 by volunteering...everyone on here will say that "everyone got a 5" so that means everyone started out with max EPR point for promotion. The rest was TIG/TIS decorations and testing. If you studied you had an equal chance of getting promoted just like anyone else. Volunteer work and education played zero role in getting to E7.
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CMSgt (Join to see)
I believe the new system will work, the cream always rises to the top and so will your #1 guy/gal in the unit. To me the performance 1st rant is being misinterpreted. There is a ton of focus about performance 1st = no more volunteering (or being an active visible leader) and education (setting the example for your troops). I believe Chief Cody is looking at us to ensure we are promoting the correct people, example being your top performers in the work center who are also leaders in the community etc. Leaders are going to lead, and not complain about meeting the standards in 2618. If you truly read the PDG/2618 etc., you will quickly realize most SMSgts/CMSgts were merely meeting and those standards and setting the example. If you are a SNCO and cannot grasp that, the AF pasted you up a long time ago.
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MSgt Michael Lane
The problem is Excellent became the standard a long time ago, and as long as there is a human factor involved the system will be subjective and flawed. As an example I was a TSgt and I was the supervisor of an SSgt that wrote an EPR on an A1C, he had given her an overall rating of 4. The Chief in charge of the shop called me into the office (I’ll never forget these words) I would consider it a personal favor if you would see to it that this airman gets a fire wall 5 rating. (He wanted her to go below the zone and a 4 would have killed any chance) I told him I would think about it. My plan was to just not do anything and maybe it would pass. A few months went by I was called in to the office again and was asked if I made a decision on what we had talked about. I told he that I would not change the rating it would not be fair to the others in the section and the man went into a rage a told me I would pay the price for my decision which I did. The airmen got out of the service after 8 years and to be honest had I known she would not stay in I would have changed the rating. Point being as long as people are involved in the process the system will be gamed and flawed.
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Too close to a repeat of history from the 60's before WAPS. Only test was a 00 question skill test. What they called the Whole Man System, I believe. During that time E1-E4 was 100%. After that promotion was based on the percentage of your AFSC to the base population. It was a very unfair system and a lot depended on how well your boss liked you. It was quite common to see guys getting ou as E-3's or approaching 20 as an E-4. Guys with college degrees getting out after 4 as two stripers. I won't bore you with minor details or horror stories, but its almost as if someone researched those days and tweaked it a bit to come up with this coming nightmare. Each new iteration was supposed to fix the old one. But, you can't fix people. Just an old farts take on things.
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20 years service.... the last 5 years showed me that people who are book smart and can test good to get promoted, cant teach young people how to do the job, nor can they covert knowledge to the job....
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MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht
I only tested for the 9 level. I met a Navy Guy in the Azores that made Chief (E-7) and had less time in service than I had as an E-5. Testing did it. It took me 8 years in grade to make E-6 (to many left over from Korea). 12 years to make E-7. retired with 8 years in grade. SURPLUS as usual. E-8 and E-9 were new. My supervisor (E-7) retired with 18 years in grade--so shut my mouth. As far as I am concerned we don't need super grades. At Ton Sun Nute the E-8 and E-9s were 2 rows deep at the bar in the NCO Club.
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