$15 an hour wage, what does it do to recruiting, retention, the pay chart, and other areas of our lives?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 15:46:28 -0400

So a PV1 under two years makes $1566.90/16= $9.79 for a 160 hr work month. Lets take $15x160 hr a month= $2400. Looking at the pay chart an E4 with 4 years is the earliest chance to get close is to make $2382 after four years.
Cuts in government spending and messing with the GI Bill, retirement, and other entitlements (BAH,TA, etc). We also don't work 160 hr/m & put our health at risk. Thoughts?

Response by SSgt Boyd Welch made Jul 14 at 2016 3:50 PM

SSgt Boyd Welch — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 15:50:51 -0400

In my opinion , the wage increase will force more young workers to consider the military for a leg up. My reasoning is that the $15 wage will reduce jobs as more automation is placed in service and the only viable option will be the military.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 3:52 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 15:52:54 -0400

You aren't taking into account that PV1s (and essentially everyone who lives in the barracks) do not have to pay for rent, utilities, food, and medical care.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 4:07 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 16:07:54 -0400

1. It forces a small amount of inflation as the costs associated goods or services go up. That $3 burger might now cost an extra quarter to make, and most of that cost will likely be passed on to the consumer.
2. The number of people who qualify for benefits such as food stamps will drop significantly. Today millions of workers are able to work full time and qualify for extensive state and Federal benefits. At $15 an hour, working people will be relying on their employers instead of taxpayers to make ends meet.
3. Working people will have some extra money to spend, which will help the economy.
4. Wages for low skilled workers will eventually rise as employers struggle to attract workers who can make $15 stocking shelves or flipping burgers.
5. A family with two adults working will earn at least 62K a year, which means they will likely also begin paying Federal Income taxes.
6. Higher income means increased Social Security tax which means the Social Security program will last longer.
7. We will see more automation as employers conduct technological upgrades to their businesses. Instead of lots of unskilled positions there will be a few skilled positions available servicing bad maintaining equipment.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Jul 14 at 2016 4:13 PM

SFC J Fullerton — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 16:13:03 -0400

As a former Army recruiter and counselor, monthly pay is hardly ever a buying motive or factor in making the decision to join. Neither was college money or bonuses. They were "nice to haves", but were add-on incentives that came with certain jobs the Army was pushing. Before that even came up, the person had to be interested in military service and committed to joining in the first place. Once that decision was made, then it was "what kind of bonus can I get?". We were "supposed" to go over the pay chart with everyone in the initial interview, but again, people don't have an interest in military service because of the pay. I think you could triple the E1 pay and it wouldn't make any difference in increasing the propensity to enlist.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 4:24 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 16:24:23 -0400

Also, do you think anyone that works a job for four years is still going to make $15 an hour. Typically this pay would go up by a few dollars over 4 years. Most people could be a shift manager at (name your fast food restaurant) and probably make 17-22 an hour.
Hiring and training of new employees is typically a businesses' biggest employee expense.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 14 at 2016 4:34 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 16:34:51 -0400

My first thought is that one should not serve for the sole purpose of making money. There are many benefits to take into consideration that civilians and federal employees more often than not have to pay for, Health and Dental, Life Insurance to name a few-these alone can equate to $1000.00 a moth. There are no extraneous bills associated with any form of surgery Big number. Then there is housing and chow-grade dependent, free none-the-less, $800.00 to $2000.00+. The next thing to discuss is that Service members do not have to count on sick leave, for sick-call, bedrest etc. Convalescing in not counted against leave. You get 30 days of regular leave from the get go, most employers start at two weeks. Not to mention your work clothes are paid for. There is more but I do not wish to drone on.

While I admit that many of the benefits I experienced are different for you, they still far and away exceed that of the private sector. As I said up front, you should be serving out of a sense of Duty and Honor, not the money, but it is not all bad.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 4:57 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 16:57:40 -0400

Bear in mind, enlisting is meant to be the equivalent of unskilled, unpaid labor. There are several studies that take into account and attempt to assign monetary value to intangible benefits of enlistment, such as education benefits, healthcare, and other "safety nets" and fringe benefits servicemembers enjoy.

Granted, a lot of these studies are funded in-house by the military, so it's hard to assess their accuracy given that bias, but even assuming they're vastly overestimating the value of our benefits, junior enlisted soldiers are extremely well-compensated for their time.

At no point in my nearly 7 years as a junior enlisted have I ever felt like I wasn't being paid enough for what I do. The majority of E-4 and below who I find complain about their "low" wages have very little to no idea of what equivalent civilian compensation looks like. Using my own life as an easy example, I gross about $1500 per paycheck, stationed in Hawaii. That's $3000 gross per month AFTER my BAH is removed for rent. If you want to INCLUDE my BAH, that's an extra $3000. So assuming a rough gross income of $6000 per month, that's $200 per day, and assuming a 10-hour work day, $20 per hour. On top of that, I don't pay health insurance, half of the things I buy are tax-free or competitively priced through the PX/Commissary, I have $80,000 worth of tuition that I can bank PLUS $4500 per semester that I can use. And to top it off, I have access to one of the best support systems in the developed world should I run into any kind of crisis, be it financial, emotional, or otherwise.

Granted, the asking cost is high: I've deployed twice, and spent almost two years away from my family. I'm geographically flexible based on the needs of the Army. I'm subject to an additional set of rules and regulations and can be punished if I don't follow them. But in my mind, having had only a margin of college-level education and only a few years of real-world work experience before I enlisted, I got a pretty solid deal.

Remember, the military is a career for some, a foundation for others. I stuck around because I enjoyed my job, and the people I worked with. If the military wasn't wage-competitive with the civilian sector, soldiers wouldn't ever re-enlist--free market economics drive military compensation as well as civilian.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 5:05 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 17:05:42 -0400

did you figure in health and dental, life insurance, if your single housing (barracks), food its the other benies that most dont account for, go to civi life, you pay for your food, you pay for your housing, you pay for all the other stuff mentioned above, if you go by you figures 15x 160 i dont make that in civi world, and i make 12.45/hr been with the company 10 years, i have to work over time, thats 6 days a week, on the 7th day its taking care of my house and property, you signed the papers the inheriant danger exists, the long hours exist thats the millitary 24/7/365, health risks that there its also part of the job, sometimes unknowingly agent orange, camp lejeune drinking water, etc, ect, your in the millitary your health is at risk every time you leave the wire

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jul 14 at 2016 5:10 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 17:10:05 -0400

Figure in medical, housing, food, clothing, etc. and the comparison will look much better.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Jul 14 at 2016 5:11 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 17:11:41 -0400

Well, how about this for a silver lining, SFC Private RallyPoint Member? When I enlisted on 9AUG69, an E-1 with less than four months service earned $115.20 per month!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 5:53 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 17:53:22 -0400

employers need to pay more, automation and get rid off employees, why would i pay for a hamburger at 4$ when i can go to fully automated establishment and get 1$ cheaper, the flaw in your post is that businesses want your business, just because they can dosn't mean they will, and any company that follows your philosophy will close

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2016 7:13 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 19:13:14 -0400

Service to country not self. The service makes sure we all have access to food and shelter. If most service members choose to live well beyond their means, like most Americans, they need to be reminded that service does not mean that the govt will pay you extra to have a nicer car or fancy phone.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 14 at 2016 7:23 PM

Maj John Bell — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 19:23:04 -0400

Our elected officials firmly repeatedly engage in "Do as we say, not as we do" legislation.

Response by SPC Brian Mason made Jul 14 at 2016 7:32 PM

SPC Brian Mason — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 19:32:23 -0400

People who demand this $15/hr or higher for NO hard work or time in a job are lazy, cop outs. There will never be equality in jobs and pay for everyone. Every person is not smart enough, skilled enough, nor has the same work ethic. Wages and salary are paid to those with the time, skills, and experience put into a job. It's insulting to those, like myself and countless others who have worked very hard to get where we are.
Economy changes in good and bad ways. Simply giving free money is only going to ruin things for all. Soldiers, among our NECESSARY jobs for a country to function are HIGHLY underpaid. Police, firefighters, EMTs, nurses, and other various EMS services that never close. Where is their equal pay in regard to their job and risk? Hmmm? Exactly, too many selfish people wanting a handout for nothing. Probably milking govt assistant as long as they can get it.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Jul 14 at 2016 8:55 PM

SSG Mark Franzen — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 20:55:12 -0400

I WOULD THINK THAT IT SHOUDN'T HAVE A IMPACT ON THEM IF THEY ARE SERIOUS ABOUT THE MILTARY.

Response by MGySgt James Forward made Jul 15 at 2016 8:57 AM

MGySgt James Forward — Fri, 15 Jul 2016 08:57:18 -0400

Lets look at what a PVT1 really makes: Monthly Pay $1,566.90, Annual Clothing allowance $327.00 ( you don't get that on the outside), you live in the barracks if you rented a place it would run more that 700+ and up, so BAQ is 531.60 ( did not include differential) and you also get three FREE MEALS a day, if you had to pay that in the chow hall it would cost you another $368.29. So not including medical and dental you make approximately $2,793.79 a month time 12 = $33,525.48 a year before taxes. there are 2,080 hours you can work, you have 9 holidays and 30 days of leave. Subtract 72 hours for holidays and 22 work days of leave another 176 hours. 2,082-72-176 leaves you with 1,832 hours you actually work. But to compare apples to apples we will use, 2,080. $33,525.48/2,080= $16.12 an hour for a PVT1 with no dependents. If you add in 150 a month for dental and somewhere around 500 for medical it goes way up.
Now for a civilian making $15x2,080 = $31,200.
Bottom Line is that The PVT1 comes out on top.

Don't complain about going somewhere on a minutes notice, that what you signed on the dotted line for. Not $$$, Not college, but defending the United States. Semper Fi.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Jul 15 at 2016 10:18 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Fri, 15 Jul 2016 10:18:46 -0400

See I always divided the wages by a 24 hour period because we are on Active Duty 24/7. Sure we get to go home after our shift, but anyone who has served knows what's it like to get a call to come in at 2 in the morning because shit hit the fan, or staying up all night because someone said something to put themselves on suicide watch, or even when your junior troops get lost or in trouble in the middle of the night and you have to go help them.

That's why I always divide our pay by 24 hours a day 7 days a week... because even when we're on liberty, the chevrons never come off and we're still on call.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2016 4:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jul 2016 16:23:15 -0400

Do these figures include BAH and BAS?