Posted on Dec 11, 2013
SSG Kevin McCulley
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The ancient officer/enlisted tiered rank structure is based off nobles and peasants. Such a structure is inherently unamerican. It can be said this structure leads to the out of touch senior leaders and an 'entitled' commissioned culture. Eisenhower looked into this after WWII and it was decided the education level wasn't there yet. This has changed. Such a structure also provides unnecessary duplication with OICs and NCOICs. Should we eliminate senior NCOs, and company grade ranks, insert warrant ranks between with the command track only being available after attaining E6? NOTE: This does not negate education requirements for holding senior billets. 
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LTC Program Manager
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What makes a good NCO does not always make a good officer.  I wouldn't mind seeing more opportunities for enlisted to enter officer producing programs, currently the slots are quite limited.
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SSG Kevin McCulley
SSG Kevin McCulley
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Sir, you find aggressive intent where there is none. 
I typoed and meant AR 600-20 Command Policy. 
Check out: Section 1–6  (Military grade and rank) which lists grade by precedence. 

Furthermore section 2–8 (Death, disability, retirement, reassignment, or absence of the commander) subsection A, paragraph 3 notes: (3) Senior regularly assigned United States Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, cadets,
NCOs, specialists, or privates present for duty unless they are ineligible under paragraphs 2–15 or 2–16. He or she
assumes command until relieved by proper authority*SNIP*

Additionally: 2–9 (Absence or disability of all officers of a unit) *SNIP*Pending assignment and arrival of the new commander, the senior WO, cadet, NCO, specialist, or private
regularly assigned to the unit will exercise temporary command.

It is reinforced under 2–10. (Emergency command)
The senior officer, WO, cadet, NCO, specialist, or private among troops at the scene of an emergency will assume
temporary command and control of the Soldiers present. These provisions also apply to troops separated from their
parent units under battlefield conditions

As to your exception to my comment on peasants and nobles, a more careful reading of my comment notes that our system is BASED upon this dichotomy. Peasants / nobles, plebeians / patricians, what ever you wish to call it is where this structure comes from.  Furthermore, the text you cite is based closely off its counterpart in the Royal Army of Great Britain. No one here is saying anything about an obedience issue. I may have had the misfortune of interacting with some very aristocratic officers. 

I am not uninformed sir, not by a long shot. I know that they are nothing compared to the US Army, but Sweden has adopted a single tier rank structure. Did you know the Confederate Army voted for its company and field grade officers? I do NOT agree with that point of view.

I'll leave with the fact that coming from a more financially well off family greatly increases your chances of not being forced to enter the work force directly after graduation. Furthermore, young people who come from families with commissioned officers in their ancestry tend to have the wheels greased for commission themselves. I ask that you not make snap judgements and approach what I've said a bit more objectively. 
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CPT Keith Steinhurst
CPT Keith Steinhurst
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SSG, again, greetings . . .  Roger.  OK, 600-20, I know it well, and your point taken, the chance that a Cadet would ever be in a succession of command situation would indeed be rare, and if such a situation were to arise, perhaps in the case of an SMP Cadet (a simultaneous member who is in ROTC and ARNG and will take a Guard Commission) in a unit mobilized and forward deployed that is then overrun, etc., and the rare and unfortunate situation were to occur, then yes, that Cadet by virtue of position and not paygrade, would succeed in Command.  By a similiar provision of 600-20, a Chaplain Officer would be able to assume Command by virtue of paygrade and not position.  There is a broad world of tradition, history, theory, and practice in how ranks and positions evolved.  I note that you have opined on practice in England, but even there, the practice evolved with wide varience in England, Britain, and UK.  Things on the Continent were even more varied and the actual practice of being a private soldier enlisting into a regiment, or being a young gentlemen and joining a mess as a subaltern, or gaining entry into field rank also varied.  As for antiquity - in Rome the path was generally open to all deserving citizens, and Centruions were routinely promoted from the ranks with the Primus Pilus having opportunity to become a Camp Prefect, generally equivilent to a Tribune, but then, the Tribunes were from senior Equestrian and Senatorial families.  Entry from the Plebiean was possible, from entry-level, and even Plebiean families could enter the Equestrian ranks by showing that they could afford the arms, equipment, and logistical support to sustain same.  Realistically, 'knights' were field commanders and provided all of the equipment for the 'men-at-arms' that accomapnied them - it was then and always has been an expensive endeavor.  As ground Armies became 'professional' in the 19th century, roles evolved, but the basic requirements for entry were the same - the 'officers' gained thier basic education through martial academies and the 'other ranks' joined and became trained on the march.  With technology and secular, post-modern, humanistic philosophies, the idea that 'officers' are an 'elite' contrary to the egalitarian, common good, have found hold in some facets of society - such ideas are inherently detrimental to good order and discipline - in all forces, and especially in volunteer ones, such as ours, there will always be leaders and followers, at all levels - whether the leaders are commissioned or not, they are leaders still, to have otherwise renders to chaos that which is already disordered - the battlefield, where in fact these therories are resolved.  Cheers! 
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SSG Retired!!!
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I was 4 classes away from my BA sir, when the Army announced that it wasn't taking over 10 years of active duty waivers for OCS. I really think they should have gave us trying to get our degree that waiver considering we were trying to go in between deployments.
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SSG Kevin McCulley
SSG Kevin McCulley
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SSG Maravi is proving my point. 
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1SG Steven Stankovich
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<p>Interesting question SSG McCulley.&nbsp; Let's hold off on eliminating the Senior NCO ranks for now though, I haven't been to ACAP yet.&nbsp; Seriously though, I believe that the while the current rank structure is based off nobles and peasants, during that time you were born into either lane.&nbsp; Today that is not the case.&nbsp; As MAJ Miller points out, officer producing schools and tracks are available to all who qualify.&nbsp; OICs and NCOICs fill different roles and I don't believe that by having both, we are providing "unnecessary duplication."&nbsp; Officers are overall responsible, Warrant Officers provide the technical advice and guidance to the Commander and NCOs carry out the Commanders intent and ensure that all are trained and prepared to accomplish the mission (those roles are&nbsp;extremely simplified for the purpose of this response).</p><p><br></p><p>I do not necessarily agree with your point that this structure "leads to the out of touch senior leaders and an 'entitled' commissioned culture."&nbsp; I believe that in this day in age, there is more than enough "sense of entitlement" to go around for all ranks.&nbsp; </p><p><br></p><p>Maybe as an alternative, we increase the training and institutional schooling at all levels to incorporate a topic such as "generation differences and how to bridge the gap."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>
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SSG Engagement Control Team Leader
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I think that NCOs, WO, and officers all have their place in the Army's command structure. For the most part, officers are focused on the mission, warrant officers on the equipment, and NCOs on the Soldiers. If you changed the force structure I think you would see a decline in Soldier care and mission readiness.

I do however, think that the pay scales need to be reevaluated for officers and senior NCOs. A CSM with 20 years makes $5,673.60 base pay. A CPT with 8 years makes $5,687.10. If he makes MAJ at 10 years that jumps all the way to $6,593.10 which is more than a CSM at 28 years. I find it hard to believe that a MAJ running a battalion S-3 is worth more to the Army than a post or division CSM with 28 years of experience.

In my opinion pay scales should reflect the level of responsibility. A SFC platoon sergeant should earn close to the same amount as a platoon leader, a 1SG should make close to the same amount as a CPT, etc. I'm not saying that a SFC and 1LT should be the same pay, but a SFC with 8 years should at least make the same as a 1LT with 2 years and a 1SG with 14 years should make at least the same as a CPT with 4 years.
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