Posted on Jan 14, 2015
From commanding officers to senior enlisted people are being relieved due to cause, sexual misconduct, even dereliction of duty.
5.84K
22
17
2
2
0
The question to this: The requirements for advancement have been loosened to allow more junior persons to assume positions of greater responsibility. Is the military promoting too fast thus setting people up for failure on all levels of the chain of command?
Posted in these groups: 
Leadership
Leadership
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
5
5
0
Chief,
It does happen from time to time; I've seen selection to CPO at ~9 years TIS and I have witnessed AF E-4s promote to E-5 with a 61% selection rate in a cycle. These extreme examples often push personnel beyond their capabilities and force them to sink or swim. For the most part, the cadence of advancement is reasonable.
Responsibility at an early age is prudent. Many meeting engagements by opposing forces in the field are often decided by personnel at the E-4 to E-6 level.
Relief from duty for cause, sexual misconduct or dereliction of duty, whether commissioned or enlisted, are often the moral failings of individuals. All of the blocks of instruction, CBTs and other training delivery methods won't excise that from the ranks. Flag officers and SNCOs have learned throughout their careers what conduct or actions exceed the cultural norm of the service. A small number still fail to meet or exceed the standard. The service will continue to take action when those members come up short.
That doesn't even consider those that are political or collateral damage from superiors. It doesn't happen too often, but it still happens.
It does happen from time to time; I've seen selection to CPO at ~9 years TIS and I have witnessed AF E-4s promote to E-5 with a 61% selection rate in a cycle. These extreme examples often push personnel beyond their capabilities and force them to sink or swim. For the most part, the cadence of advancement is reasonable.
Responsibility at an early age is prudent. Many meeting engagements by opposing forces in the field are often decided by personnel at the E-4 to E-6 level.
Relief from duty for cause, sexual misconduct or dereliction of duty, whether commissioned or enlisted, are often the moral failings of individuals. All of the blocks of instruction, CBTs and other training delivery methods won't excise that from the ranks. Flag officers and SNCOs have learned throughout their careers what conduct or actions exceed the cultural norm of the service. A small number still fail to meet or exceed the standard. The service will continue to take action when those members come up short.
That doesn't even consider those that are political or collateral damage from superiors. It doesn't happen too often, but it still happens.
(5)
(0)
CPO (Join to see)
SMSgt, You are quite right on the many things that come up during a career. And your are also very correct in the fact that a person who does not have strength of morals can rise and slip through the cracks in an upward mobility through politics or other means.
I should mention, many sections of the services have fantastic mentor programs and then it seems others, have none. From the things I have witnessed and read, talked with others about leads me to believe the Army has one of the best programs for leadership training and mentorship.
The whole thing that comes to mind with that is your bottom line, the collateral damage, those that actually do represent the "peter principle" at its finest.
I am almost left wondering if the mentorship programs of years ago are being lost by the op-tempo and the downsizing of personnel similar to the rapid downsize in the 70's after Nam. Just a curiosity.
I should mention, many sections of the services have fantastic mentor programs and then it seems others, have none. From the things I have witnessed and read, talked with others about leads me to believe the Army has one of the best programs for leadership training and mentorship.
The whole thing that comes to mind with that is your bottom line, the collateral damage, those that actually do represent the "peter principle" at its finest.
I am almost left wondering if the mentorship programs of years ago are being lost by the op-tempo and the downsizing of personnel similar to the rapid downsize in the 70's after Nam. Just a curiosity.
(0)
(0)
SMSgt Gary Calhoun
Chief,
You are correct. Advancing from PO1 to CPO is a journey; not just a promotion ceremony in the Navy. The crew in the Goatlocker makes sure the E-6s know what is expected and how it will be so the SNCO Corps isn't tarnished.
I had outstanding leaders in the Army. Everyone in the company knows that a subordinate's failure belonged to their immediate supervisor and the supervisor's supervisor. Junior enlisted had plenty of oversight and when the fire team leader (~E-4) missed something, the squad leader (~E-6) was there immediately to use it as a teaching moment for the team leader and team member.
I've also had some outstanding leaders and mentors in the AF - both officers and enlisted...to include a Canadian Army MP officer on exchange. The Air Force's limiting factor is the lack of emphasis on the collective organization versus the individual. Traditionally the Army deploys guidons (organic units) and the AF deploys small teams (my normal is 1 to 13 person packages). Most AF performance reports are "firewall 5s" for enlisted troops; the Army is more stingy on their performance reports. The AF Creed mentions the following words: I (11), My (5), We (0) and Our (0). While the other creeds (http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/military-creeds.html) also focus on the individual - their traditions and norms reinforce the "we" over the "me". The AF is discussing the mentorship piece at lower levels more often, but a cultural shift will take time. I see officer mentorship in the AF to be ahead of the enlisted corps at present. It will take time to become widely institutionalized but is possible.
You are correct. Advancing from PO1 to CPO is a journey; not just a promotion ceremony in the Navy. The crew in the Goatlocker makes sure the E-6s know what is expected and how it will be so the SNCO Corps isn't tarnished.
I had outstanding leaders in the Army. Everyone in the company knows that a subordinate's failure belonged to their immediate supervisor and the supervisor's supervisor. Junior enlisted had plenty of oversight and when the fire team leader (~E-4) missed something, the squad leader (~E-6) was there immediately to use it as a teaching moment for the team leader and team member.
I've also had some outstanding leaders and mentors in the AF - both officers and enlisted...to include a Canadian Army MP officer on exchange. The Air Force's limiting factor is the lack of emphasis on the collective organization versus the individual. Traditionally the Army deploys guidons (organic units) and the AF deploys small teams (my normal is 1 to 13 person packages). Most AF performance reports are "firewall 5s" for enlisted troops; the Army is more stingy on their performance reports. The AF Creed mentions the following words: I (11), My (5), We (0) and Our (0). While the other creeds (http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/military-creeds.html) also focus on the individual - their traditions and norms reinforce the "we" over the "me". The AF is discussing the mentorship piece at lower levels more often, but a cultural shift will take time. I see officer mentorship in the AF to be ahead of the enlisted corps at present. It will take time to become widely institutionalized but is possible.
(2)
(0)
SGT Jack Stevens
It took me 6 years as a Specialist before i was recommended, and alot of questionable tactics happened even then. Then after i became an NCO, i fought tooth and nail for my soldiers. But u never sweated my advancement. Even after I was medicaled, i continue to this day to mentor young soldiers as to the correct ways.
(0)
(0)
4
4
0
I read somewhere that per capita, crime has gone down over the years. It seems as though it has gone up because the media picks up on things so quickly.
There was a study done why many famous or high ranking people get into affairs, etc. It boiled down to power. When you are in a position of power, you are used to getting what you want. Over time, you feel as though you can get away with things like this.
If we create a culture of accountability and transparency, i think it is easier to stop people from thinking like this.
There was a study done why many famous or high ranking people get into affairs, etc. It boiled down to power. When you are in a position of power, you are used to getting what you want. Over time, you feel as though you can get away with things like this.
If we create a culture of accountability and transparency, i think it is easier to stop people from thinking like this.
(4)
(0)
3
3
0
It's not about promoting too fast. The real problem is the cut backs. You can't stuff 25 pounds into a 5 pound sack, the excess 15 pounds is all liability and risk . In my honest opinion, that rubber band is maxed to its compacity and it's about to break!! Instead of keeping key personnel in key places, we replace them with inexperienced younger NCO's and expect the same results. Far too much responsibility is being placed in inexperienced hands, causing incompetence. No fault of their own, just not trained properly nor do they have the experience to do the job. We are quick to down size to save a buck RIGHT NOW, but in the long run we end up paying double for the faults of the down sizing decision.
(3)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google