Posted on Jan 30, 2015
Can somebody be a Jump Master and non-tabbed SF guy?
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As I spent most of my career overseas and with Stryker Brigades, I'm not too familiar with JumpMaster Qualifications. Can anyone with over 100 jumps earn that title or does MOS matter. Also for all the non-tabbed SF patch guys do they actually become associated with SF in any official way...like being welcomed to their "Safe Houses" in the public world/civilian world? I'm referring to the same soldier in both inquiries who was NOT a Combat MOS. He's selling it, but I'm not buying it. Any help is appreciated even if it supports him. I just want to know the truth on the matter. We always "kicked sand" at the tabless "SF" terds!
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SSG Shelton
To answer your questions, BLUF, there is no such thing as a non-tabbed SF guy and you cannot become a Jumpmaster unless you have been to and graduated from a Ft Benning recognized Jumpmaster course.
For the Jump Master, it doesn't matter how many jumps you have, how long you have been on status, or how long you have been in an airborne unit, you will never be a jump master unless you have graduated the course. It also doesn't matter is you have done a combat jump.
For the SF issue, unless the guy holds an 18 series MOS, he isn't SF. He may have been SF support or he may have been a prior 18 series that has had his tab revocated due to disciplinary actions that have brought discredit to the regiment. SF units aren't like the Ranger Regiment where a Soldier can be a Ranger but not have a Ranger tab. For them the Soldier is a 11B, usually like a Private through Specialist, that hasn't been to Ranger school yet. To ad though, we have some very high quality support Soldiers that have done outstanding jobs and have been reassigned due to normal Army PCSs. I have had support attached to my team that were golden and have since PCSs for career progression. They are still in good standing with the unit and probably still have contact with the men they have served with.
If this guy is at your unit and is boasting claims like being a "Jump Master" and how he was a Non-Tabbed SF guy, I'd be suspicious and he is probably trying to get attention that he hasn't earned.
Hope this helps and not too wordy.
To answer your questions, BLUF, there is no such thing as a non-tabbed SF guy and you cannot become a Jumpmaster unless you have been to and graduated from a Ft Benning recognized Jumpmaster course.
For the Jump Master, it doesn't matter how many jumps you have, how long you have been on status, or how long you have been in an airborne unit, you will never be a jump master unless you have graduated the course. It also doesn't matter is you have done a combat jump.
For the SF issue, unless the guy holds an 18 series MOS, he isn't SF. He may have been SF support or he may have been a prior 18 series that has had his tab revocated due to disciplinary actions that have brought discredit to the regiment. SF units aren't like the Ranger Regiment where a Soldier can be a Ranger but not have a Ranger tab. For them the Soldier is a 11B, usually like a Private through Specialist, that hasn't been to Ranger school yet. To ad though, we have some very high quality support Soldiers that have done outstanding jobs and have been reassigned due to normal Army PCSs. I have had support attached to my team that were golden and have since PCSs for career progression. They are still in good standing with the unit and probably still have contact with the men they have served with.
If this guy is at your unit and is boasting claims like being a "Jump Master" and how he was a Non-Tabbed SF guy, I'd be suspicious and he is probably trying to get attention that he hasn't earned.
Hope this helps and not too wordy.
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SSG Kyle Shelton
I wasn't aware that your support non-combat MOS attaxhments went on patrols as machine gunners/mini gun ahooters, or went on raids at night on HVT's or Tier Targets. The teams we were lucky to work with me went out as a team, not a convoy with the whole base.
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SGM (Join to see)
To caveat to this response, there is also the 82nd Airborne Division Advanced Airborne School too. Fort Benning is not the only Jumpmaster School. But spot on, for the remainder of your excerpt.
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MSG (Join to see)
For the Jump Master courses I was speaking of, I need to clarify. I had said that the JM courses needed to be Ft Benning recognized. There are many MTTs being run by units but they must be validated by Ft Benning.
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For jumpmaster school, you have to be in a jump billet. This includes both combat and non-combat MOS Soldiers. I believe you only need 12 or more jumps (or something closer to that... nothing close to a 100) in order to attend jumpmaster school, with a combination of night jumps and combat equipment jumps before you go.
As far as as your question about being welcomed to "safe houses" -- this is a bit more ambiguous. SF support personnel are respected by SF Soldiers, but are definitely not considered precisely the same as tabbed Soldiers when it comes to common social or professional relationships. This is not meant to be a sign of disrespect, just a distinction that certain members of the community have earned. There can always be exceptions though, and probably would be if a support soldier served shoulder to shoulder in combat with his SF colleagues and proved himself in combat.
Again, this is not to take away from the support Soldiers. They are very much needed and good support Soldiers are highly appreciated. But there is still very much a distinction when it comes to things like reunions, etc.
As far as as your question about being welcomed to "safe houses" -- this is a bit more ambiguous. SF support personnel are respected by SF Soldiers, but are definitely not considered precisely the same as tabbed Soldiers when it comes to common social or professional relationships. This is not meant to be a sign of disrespect, just a distinction that certain members of the community have earned. There can always be exceptions though, and probably would be if a support soldier served shoulder to shoulder in combat with his SF colleagues and proved himself in combat.
Again, this is not to take away from the support Soldiers. They are very much needed and good support Soldiers are highly appreciated. But there is still very much a distinction when it comes to things like reunions, etc.
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SSG Kyle Shelton
Let's just say he doesn't have a CIB awarded, CAB, etc but it would have been before 1990 then Gulf War times not 2001-Present.
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LTC Yinon Weiss
SSG Kyle Shelton - My general assumption is that if anybody is really showing off about anything, he's likely exaggerating. If something is already true, then you have no reason to boast about it.
A couple of other thoughts:
- If he went to Jumpmaster school, you can just ask him for his graduation certificate.
- If he served with SF in the 80s, ask him what ODA, and where he sees them in these "Safe Houses" -- I assure you there is nothing secret here. At most, it's going to be a bar that SF guys like to hang out around. Ask him to take you there. If he says he doesn't want to disclose a location or something, then you know he is full of it. At which point, you should have a serious talk with him and decide if you still want to be friends with somebody like that.
A couple of other thoughts:
- If he went to Jumpmaster school, you can just ask him for his graduation certificate.
- If he served with SF in the 80s, ask him what ODA, and where he sees them in these "Safe Houses" -- I assure you there is nothing secret here. At most, it's going to be a bar that SF guys like to hang out around. Ask him to take you there. If he says he doesn't want to disclose a location or something, then you know he is full of it. At which point, you should have a serious talk with him and decide if you still want to be friends with somebody like that.
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SSG Kyle Shelton
Well we are in Alaska and he was down south near the "Makers Mark" Distillery and added a picture standing by the sign of one of these houses and more than made it clear he went in, no photo of course. He was not a combat MOS but I'm afraid he's misrepresenting himself as more SF tied than truth shows and is using it to build his 3%/Militia. Just wish I could find his records.
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SSG Kyle Shelton, it is not 100 Jumps that qualifies you as a Jump Master.
You need to be a Graduate of an approved Advanced Airborne Course currently based in two locations (Fort Benning, and Fort Bragg). Now USASOC does conduct their own JM Course as well since they SF Unique guidelines.
As far as Jump numbers goes it is a combination of specific jumps and Jump Master duties which qualifies an individual. Yes, any Leader serving in an AIRBORNE position can attend the JM Course.
I cannot state for the "Safe House" comment. I will state that I ave been awarded an "S" identifier for being assigned to Special Forces along with some other requirements with the assignment.
Do not quote me but I believe that if a support Soldier joined the SF Association they would be able to attend events there.
I am still in contact with individuals with whom I worked with during my time with the SF Community. The only reason I did not get to change over is due to needing physical waivers.
I have to agree with LTC Yinon Weiss, anyone who needs to brag about it is probably not fully truthful. The SF Motto is "Quiet Professional" for a reason and if you have ever worked with them you would understand it.
You need to be a Graduate of an approved Advanced Airborne Course currently based in two locations (Fort Benning, and Fort Bragg). Now USASOC does conduct their own JM Course as well since they SF Unique guidelines.
As far as Jump numbers goes it is a combination of specific jumps and Jump Master duties which qualifies an individual. Yes, any Leader serving in an AIRBORNE position can attend the JM Course.
I cannot state for the "Safe House" comment. I will state that I ave been awarded an "S" identifier for being assigned to Special Forces along with some other requirements with the assignment.
Do not quote me but I believe that if a support Soldier joined the SF Association they would be able to attend events there.
I am still in contact with individuals with whom I worked with during my time with the SF Community. The only reason I did not get to change over is due to needing physical waivers.
I have to agree with LTC Yinon Weiss, anyone who needs to brag about it is probably not fully truthful. The SF Motto is "Quiet Professional" for a reason and if you have ever worked with them you would understand it.
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SSG Kyle Shelton
Would understand? I do understand because I've worked with them plenty. Besides our PL coming from 10 years in group (MSGT) we trained with the Alpha Team and conducted joint missions with them and shared a tiny COP with a Bravo Team for an entire year. I never saw any non-tabbed guys out of the wire with them. I'm not buying that all the SF support soldiers hold the same weight as the Operators, in fact is asked my old PL who went back to Group and is a Major now about the "POG GONE WILD" post and he confirmed that only tabbers have certain privileges. Besides that he said none of them go through any of the training or train with SF besides jumping.
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