Posted on Mar 18, 2014
What was the worse advice that you had received from a "Barracks Lawyer"?
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"Barracks Lawyers", "Guardhouse Lawyers", "S**thouse Lawyers"- whatever you called them- we have encountered these purveyors of bad advice during our time in the military. What was the worse advice that you'd ever received from a "Barracks Lawyer"? Did you take their advice? And if so, did you regret it and vowed never to receive advice from a "Barracks Lawyer" ever again?
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Experience Advice
Posted 10 y ago
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Many moons ago, I got an Article 15 ((shriek!!!!)). Reported to Area Defense Counsel (ADC) to a brand spanking new Capt (by direct Law School commission to Capt not just-made-Capt-after-1LT).
He looked over the facts of my case, refused to listen to my added information, told me that I "was looking at A1C and lucky to not get thrown out", then regaled me with tales of all the other cases he was working at that time. I *respectfully* told him to pound sand and hired a civilian Attorney. Best money spent. Case was eventually Set Aside and I pressed on smarter.
That whole experience was my ah-ha moment. I am delighted to say that I learned so much from that and recovered my career.
He looked over the facts of my case, refused to listen to my added information, told me that I "was looking at A1C and lucky to not get thrown out", then regaled me with tales of all the other cases he was working at that time. I *respectfully* told him to pound sand and hired a civilian Attorney. Best money spent. Case was eventually Set Aside and I pressed on smarter.
That whole experience was my ah-ha moment. I am delighted to say that I learned so much from that and recovered my career.
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CMSgt (Join to see)
TSgt Joshua Copeland
I would have to agree with that. GEN (R) Fogleman's impressive "We are not a one mistake Air Force" speech was key in my case. I do not know if that would endure now.
Although self-inflicted, I would not wish the stress of that situation on anyone. BUT, I am never more grateful for that most important lesson of not just my career, but my life.
I would have to agree with that. GEN (R) Fogleman's impressive "We are not a one mistake Air Force" speech was key in my case. I do not know if that would endure now.
Although self-inflicted, I would not wish the stress of that situation on anyone. BUT, I am never more grateful for that most important lesson of not just my career, but my life.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
What is odd, is that it is often the very folks that benefited from the system of recovery are the ones most hell bent on breaking people over it. As a very young Amn, I had a Chief that had 2 self admitted Art15's but would push for admin discharge of anyone with an Art15 in his unit.
(Obviously not you, are the example of the system working RIGHT)
(Obviously not you, are the example of the system working RIGHT)
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CMSgt (Join to see)
TSgt Joshua Copeland
This leadership gig is a tough bidness. Lol.
I know that when faced with disciplinary issues, I will always reflect on the facts and my experience from that incident.
This leadership gig is a tough bidness. Lol.
I know that when faced with disciplinary issues, I will always reflect on the facts and my experience from that incident.
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Maj Mike Sciales
The great thing about an Art 15 (if you have one, not recommending them) is that you do have a chance to talk directly to your commander and have others speak on your behalf. If you are a good troop and if you have an intelligent commander and First Sergeant, who aren't afraid of metrics, they have a vast amount of latitude, including canning the whole business -- and I've had commanders do just that over the strenuous objection of the Base SJA -- and that's where an ADC can make significant inroads based on the relationship she or he has with the command element. I always accompanied troops and got some surprisingly good results. I also spent a good amount of time on educating airmen about the five most common ways they get jammed up: Sex, checks, drugs, alcohol and failure to go. My statistical analysis revealed these were the main areas. I'd brief every commander's call I was invited to and I'd do it repeatedly. Hard to prove an offense was prevented, but we (leadership) always have an obligation to educate young troops. My biggest plea was to First Sergeants to never, ever assign a new troop to a room anywhere near a bad troop getting ready to be discharged because those bad troops would always take the new guy under their wing to give "legal advice."
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"I'd tell the First Sergeant to KISS MY ASS!" Sadly the young troop followed that advice which is what led him to my office as the Area Defense Counsel. I put on my line badge, found out what aircraft this maintainer/lawyer was working on and I drove out to the plane parked on the ramp. I went over to his tool box (he was working in the bomb bay), grabbed a big wrench and started tapping on the airframe and unlatching openings. The guy finally noticed me and said "Hey! Sir! What are you doing?" I told him since he felt like practicing law I felt like practicing maintenance." He took my meaning. I also made a phone call to the concerned First Sergeant who took a special interest in this young fellow for the duration of his assignment.
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When I was a PFC, this other PFC told me he was going to tell our CoC that he was allergic to peanuts so he could turn his meal card in and get separate rats. I told him they may check, he said "What are they going to do? make me eat a peanut?". I told him, "Just simple blood work really." He walked into the training room to get his 4187 back directly after.....
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