Posted on Jan 23, 2024
SSG Infantryman
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What do you to when the evaluation redress system is not working? The Commander refused to conduct the inquiry and when he had no choice he purposely skewed the facts and lied.

Everything I state is backed up with documentation, emails, text, and other means legal in my state.

I posted here months ago regarding an NCOER issue. Falsified derogatory comments with no basis and falsified counseling dates. Every date. So my argument is the totality of the inaccuracies on the report should show the report is unjust and unwarranted. I got a lot of great responses from some great leaders on here. But to keep it short I have a really good case and have all evidence of actions and lack there of. My case should be open and shut and my leaders should have just fixed it based on regulatory guidance but they did not. So, I requested the Commanders Inquiry.

The issue now, and I knew this was going to be an issue from the beginning, is My Co CDR did not want to conduct the Commanders Inquiry. He clearly wants to be a bro and not a Commander. He did not communicate, he dragged his feet, never put the administrative hold on the eval, and now he’s lying on his MFR for the findings of the inquiry. I requested the inquiry in September 14 and only after no action taken I said to him on November 15 in email I am going to seek guidance from BN is when he immediately started inquiry. I told him this on November 15 and on November 16 he started. I only know he started on November 16 because that’s what he wrote in his MFR. If I didn’t mention BN he would have started at a later date or not at all.

Without saying a lot, yes he lied on an official document and made false official statements in his MFR. I eloquently explained in email and dissected everything in his MFR that was false and everything he purposely chose to exclude or miscommunicate. Needless to say the Commander said he was going to fix it. In a meeting he presented me the MFR on December 13, December 14 I sent the email, December 15 they call me to a meeting to tell me they are going to fix it and re write it. They still have not fixed it and therefore I have not signed the eval since the Commanders Inquiry is still not over for corrections according to the Co command team.

All I want is for the commander to tell what happened in the MFR so I can properly appeal. I don’t care if the raters fixes anything at this point as long as the documentation shows they had the opportunity to abide by the regulation after it was addressed. I gave a 14 page Commanders inquiry in MFR format and he wrote a one page which did not capture the evidence and actually made it seem like I’m making it up.

The rater falsified the counseling dates but the Commander told me in the meeting on 13 DEC that I have the word falsified misconstrued. Is putting dates to make it seem like I was counseled when I was not not falsification? He also wrote in his MFR “…no derogatory information was placed on the evaluation. during the meeting on 13 DEC he says the information is negative but not derogatory. Well why can’t he say negative information was placed on the evaluation? He could have left that part out like he left out all the other facts. He wants to alleviate any condemnation from his battles and make it seem like I’m lying. Negative, derogatory, unfavorable all mean the same thing. He tried to play with semantics to justify actions but they literally mean the same thing which is wild he doesn’t know that. Ar 600-37 the regulation on unfavorable information defines derogatory using multiple synonyms. It’s any information gjT calls into questions my character, reliability, trustworthiness etc. Im so tired of still dealing with this and being lied on I don’t know what to do any more.
Posted in these groups: 1efa5058 NCOER
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Time to take this to BN and/or BDE Commander Open Door
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CSM William Everroad
CSM William Everroad
3 mo
MSG (Join to see) - I have gotten a few "appeal" phone calls over the years. Most end up as misunderstandings of the rater's responsibilities for objective and accurate evaluations based on established criteria.

If I got this phone call and the evidence is legit, me and the CDR would be having a couple drinks to talk this over.
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SSG Infantryman
SSG (Join to see)
3 mo
CSM William Everroad

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I never intended on getting any one in trouble I wanted the situation fixed of course so I decided to handle it at the appropriate level each step. They used my transparency and my respect for authority against me. It’s my fault for trusting the process. Also I already spoken to the BN CSM and nothing came out of it. No one wants to deal with the second or third order affects on why my report was even allowed to be submitted without Command review or why after so long it is still an issue. I work at Division so I’m going to the Division route.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
MSG (Join to see)
3 mo
SSG (Join to see) - Some times, you have to hit hard. DIV CSM (with luck) will go ape sh*t on everyone below. Birds, Clusters and Bars have a tendency to start acting right when the Star level gets involved.
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CSM William Everroad
CSM William Everroad
3 mo
SSG (Join to see) - I am glad you aren't letting it go, but I am disappointed to hear that your NCO Support Channel has not been more help.

I always try to be objective when mediating disagreements with the rating chain and the rated NCO. I think that has helped be avoid the egregious cases like yours. I usually establish early on some standards of practice when rating NCOs with all the raters and senior raters.

If it helps, anytime I have conflicts, I usually approach it as everyone means well (assume no one is an asshole on purpose), but someone where we missed an opportunity to develop either the rated NCO or ourselves. This usually keeps senior raters and raters from feeling like they are "in trouble" if they have to get called to the carpet.

I do hope that it gets sorted and you get a fair an objective evaluation of your performance.
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1px xxx
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Edited 3 mo ago
SSG (Join to see), in instances like the one you describe, when such matters came to my attention or the attention of my Brigade CSM, we treated them as commander's inquiries. At times, I directed a commander's inquiry at the battalion level if they were not appropriately involved, with a set timeline for resolution, and the Battalion Cdr keeping me updated. During these inquiries, I aimed for an equal burden on the Senior Rater, the Rater, and the Ratee to substantiate their positions with evidence. Discrepancies between the evaluation and periodic (quarterly) or episodic performance counseling sometimes arose. As necessary, I would request the Ratee's copy of the DA Form 2166-8-1 to clarify dates and other details. Both Raters and Ratees are aware that the Ratee receives a copy of the written counseling.
In challenging situations, or when there is ambiguity between counseling and evaluation, I would involve the Inspector General (IG) for assistance. This involvement would occur as part of a commander's inquiry and the IG would help inform my judgement. You could request a commander's inquiry at the next level up and even ask that they involve the IG for assistance. Alternatively, you can independently seek IG involvement, especially if you believe that a case can be made.
SSG Infantryman
SSG (Join to see)
3 mo
I appreciate this Sir.

I recently asked IG for help they told me the evaluation system has its own redress process so they cannot help me. Even though the redress process is not working due to unit violations of regulatory guidance and UCMJ they still won’t help.

I went to legal on multiple occasions and they tell me the same thing. And to just appeal even though I really need the inquiry to say the correct things so I can properly appeal.

If BN is not helping I doubt the BDE will either. The Co Command team said BDE legal is who advised my Command team to conduct the investigation the way they did and document the findings in the MFR the way they did. BDE legal is who will likely advise the BDE team the same way. BDE legal did not advise the Co Commander to place the report on administrative hold either.

My route will be the CGs hotline. May sound extreme, but I am getting no help where ever I reach out to. I have received no help when reaching out to the 1SG since August, in September, and throughout. No help when I requested the inquiry from the Commander in September. Post Legal in September. Another inquiry request to the commander in October. BDE legal in November. The BN in December. Post legal again this month. And more timeline details I did mot mention.

I never tried to get anyone in trouble which is why I had the upmost curtesy and exuded the upmost patience. I got screwed over for trusting the process Sir.
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1px xxx
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3 mo
SSG (Join to see) - the CG's hotline may not be as intense as anticipated. Typically, it involves the CG reaching out to the Bde Cdr to inquire about the situation. At the Division level, the CG might instruct the CoS to gather information from the STB Cdr before determining the course of action. Regardless of your approach, it is advisable to maintain a non-emotive and concise tone in both verbal and written communication. In my experience, a 14-page document could often be condensed into 5 pages.
SGT Satellite Communication Systems Operator/Maintainer
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Take the QMP and collect your involuntary separation pay.
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SSG Infantryman
SSG (Join to see)
2 mo
where is the fun in that
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