Posted on Mar 30, 2014
Should Officer Promotion use the Enlisted "Point" System?
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While the promotion point system has its flaws, it is a more tangible objective system designed to promote for merit rather than the Board does. With the changes in the military, including new OER formats that look increasingly like NCOERs, Would it be beneficial or not to have the Officer promotion system mirror that of enlisted?
For use for Junior Officers (O1-O3 or O1-O4).
Promotions
Army
Officers
Enlisted
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 20
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Again, I will reiterate how different the jobs of NCOs and Officers are. What would you give points for? Should I be more eligible for promotion because I took the Forklift Operator's course? Do you want to reward me for chasing after schools or for being an effective officer? If various jobs became worth points, then people would job grub and attempt to dodge positions that weren't worth as many points. Higher point jobs would become revolving doors as officers try to get whatever the minimum time is in to get the points.
TIG is the wrong answer for officers too, but I prefer the vagaries of a board to an easily gamed point system. I don't really see that officer promotion is all that affected by "connections." Maybe at the O-5 to O-6 level and beyond, but at that point connections matter. Assignments, on the other hand, are a different story and certainly if you never get chosen for Company Command it will affect promotion, but it would behoove a Soldier to figure out why he/she is not being chosen rather than to complain about the system.
A one-size fits all answer will always have a lot of flaws.
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I think the rationale applies, if i have a Counter Intelligence Agent, why should they receive points for the Unit Postal Clerk Course? I don't know, but they do.
It actually causes issues where we have extrememly qualified Soldiers who deserve to be picked up for E-6, but instead of having them do there job, we end up sending them to courses to be competitive with their peers.
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EXACTLY!!! Ding, ding, ding!!! BINGO! You want to take a broken system and spread it to the officer corps. You are right to sense that something is off, but this would not be the fix.
Stupidly high promotion rates were the result of us needing higher ranking officers than we had bodies in the pipeline to fill. That is completely over now. It will take a decade to all wash through the system, but over the immediate three years you will see drastic changes.
The problem the Army is faced with is its size. While it would be great to hold interviews or something deeper than a few sheets of paper, it just isn't realistic. When branches oversaw their own promotions it had the positive effect of making apple to apple comparisons, but there were many negative effects. The type of advantages from "connections" were practically unavoidable.
The best solution I can offer is to eliminate the impediments to putting incompetent officers on the record. Have you looked into what it takes to file a referred OER? It's a bear. So much easier to just relieve the person and shuffle them off to "assist" on staff somewhere. But to come full circle, those mediocre OERs still got you promoted before the draw down. Now that won't happen.
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I wasn't (nor would I) want to take a broken system and spread it to the officer corps as well. But I do think there is some intrinsic value in the NCO promotion system.
Luckily I do believe that the draw down will force the military to re-look some of its practices and procedures and see if it can come up with a better way to operate.
Heck maybe they should just read Rallypoint...plenty of good ideas here ... LOL
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SFC Michael Hasbun I don't think the Army would be able to apply the same promotion method for officers as enlisted. The time it would take to filter through the shear mass of the packet would require the creation of an MOS in itself. The NCO system may not be the best as a means of assessment but overall it works. In some MOSs you have a rapid turnover rate but in others some may wait year for a slot to open up. There really isn't a means to create a common ground to handle this and uniformly apply this among the masses.
As I stated in my post. The fear of having a school chaser is out there. I have been a PL in my platoon for about 20 and was gone for about 9 of those months as a result of school. I am the only PL in my Battalion that is Ranger qualified now. I would say that it would make me a shoe in for the next command but it would not be fair. I was the only PL that was really offered the ability to go. There may be other PLs that have more time on ground and experience. They would be more qualified should be promoted over me.
I think the evaluation has been overlooked and almost viewed as a burden. We all know when that time comes around many people didn't do the counseling to draw their bullets from. I believe that the reduction of troops will leave an more skilled and proficient Army. I know soldiers, to include officers, are being asked to leave. I doubt that these are the best of the officer corps. Someone has to be found the least of their perspective branch. It is a hard reality that must be faced that is like the elephant in the room. No one wants to talk about it.
As I stated in my post. The fear of having a school chaser is out there. I have been a PL in my platoon for about 20 and was gone for about 9 of those months as a result of school. I am the only PL in my Battalion that is Ranger qualified now. I would say that it would make me a shoe in for the next command but it would not be fair. I was the only PL that was really offered the ability to go. There may be other PLs that have more time on ground and experience. They would be more qualified should be promoted over me.
I think the evaluation has been overlooked and almost viewed as a burden. We all know when that time comes around many people didn't do the counseling to draw their bullets from. I believe that the reduction of troops will leave an more skilled and proficient Army. I know soldiers, to include officers, are being asked to leave. I doubt that these are the best of the officer corps. Someone has to be found the least of their perspective branch. It is a hard reality that must be faced that is like the elephant in the room. No one wants to talk about it.
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CPT Wolfer is right on target here. It would have to be significantly edited, to the point where it would no longer look anything like what exists for NCO's. There are retention plans to account for the fact that some guys will not achieve the necessary points to move on. The officer corps just doesn't have that kind of attrition planned. The first promotion of an officer is purely administrative. No offense. The second requires a board...a significant board if you've been playing along with the home game. NCO's don't see a board until they are going for E7. Using the same logic, the first board we would have would be to Colonel. You'd have to modify the OER...again. We are also evaluated against our peers. NCO's are not...yet. What you see happening right now (finally) is that the NCO system is merging with ours. Not the other way around. The process for selection and promotion in a smaller population (officers) is easier to modify and change, and thus it has matured faster than the NCO system. Moving almost anything in the officer personnel system towards the NCO system would be a huge step backwards. Trust me. You didn't see the old system 20 years ago.
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