Posted on Apr 4, 2014
SFC Healthcare Specialist (Combat Medic)
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I've only seen very few officers being told that they failed at their job, but still see them pin on CPT bars later and be enroute to take a company after C/3. I've seen new NCOs  have more authority over people then the officer that was in front of the formation.  I know the machine keeps turning no matter what screw, nut, or bolt you put in it, but should we have a way to decomission a young officer quicker to junior enlisted ranks through trends and evaluations rather then continue to give more then half of them more as they go forward? 

I've seen these officers get seperated from the force with minimum to pay back to the military, if any at all.  I've seen West Point grads  told to kick rocks after entering into the ranks, and left with a great education and no fullfilled obligation.  What are your thoughts?

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CPT Multifunctional Logistician
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SFC Jolly,

 

The answer is simple.  No.  Officers who fail at being a LT should not be promoted.  I once had a fellow Lieutenant who after 2 years as PL with 3PSGs and 2 COs, was simply untrainable.  She couldn't follow simple instructions, wouldn't listen to her PSGs or NCOs, has a list of excuses for every failure, and even had some serious personal relationship issues that interfered with work.  My CO did the right thing and would not recommend her for promotion to O-3.  The BN CO backed him up and it didn't happen.  Later, she got passed over again and she is now out of the Army.  We tried everything we could think of to get her proficient at her job, but it simply would not stick.  Even the BN CDR and CSM were left scratching their heads.  If it needs to happen, it can.  You just need to document why.

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SGT Technical Support
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SFC (Join to see), as a Guard NCO, I'm with CPT (Join to see) and MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca, the whole attitude of dumping servicemembers on the guard and reserves because they can't hack it on AD makes no sense, we have the same requirements you do and a whole hell of a lot less time to meet them. It is disrespectful of the fact that Guard and reserve servicemembers make the same sacrifices and risks that AD servicemembers do.
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SGT Technical Support
SGT (Join to see)
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[Edit] I just realized how old y'all's comments are. Sorry to bring up old crap out of the blue [/Edit]
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CPT Multifunctional Logistician
CPT (Join to see)
9 y
Just because it is old doesn't mean that it isn't still relevant SGT (Join to see).
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
9 y
Exactly CPT (Join to see)! SGT (Join to see) The practice is still in play so it is complete relevant. FUMU - Fk up and move up - is alive and well in the military and civilian worlds.
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COL Vincent Stoneking
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I agree with CPT Johnson and SFC Swartz. Failure should not be rewarded with promotion. 

As to the second half - "decommissioning to junior enlisted." No as well.  The Officer did not enlist, and has non enlistment agreement. Should they chose to enlist (assuming the Army found them worthy - Doubtful with a shrinking Army and what should be a few bad evals...), that is fine. However "decommissioning" them would put them into a contract they didn't sign, for work that they might well be unsuited for, and guarantee an unhappy barracks lawyer, who has a big chip on their shoulder - Likely to bring down the morale of the unit where they land.  

If they were prior enlisted, I believe reversion to their enlisted rank would be a viable option.  
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BG Dep. Director, Military Programs
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All officers have an obligation similar to an enlisted contract for their first few year. USMA grad owe 5 yrs., ROTC 4, and poor OCS grads like me only 3. A few officers, like pilots or doctors can owe even more. Bottom line is that they can't leave the Service without paying back Uncle Sam.
Some officers may also be late bloomers and be better senior officers than junior officers. We don't decide if an enlisted man can be a good Sergeant Major after his or her first four years, let's not do that with officers.
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LCDR Vice President
LCDR (Join to see)
9 y
Good point General, while I personally have never seen a failing JO “get better” I am sure there are more than a few instances where the command climate was such that a JO would have done better in a more successful command. They normally get at least that one transfer before their time is up and thus the opportunity to flourish under better leadership.

But, at least in the Navy inevitably the rate of promotion to O-3 is 100% and a failing O-2 is just kicked down the road. I have seen in one instance while the Navy was downsizing a completely failing JO was "encouraged" to take IRR, since all of our JOs are USNR until they become permanent grade IRR just means you are off the hook for the rest of your obligation. Now that does not apply to pilots or doctors and you are still subject to call up till the end of that 8th year.
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BG Dep. Director, Military Programs
BG (Join to see)
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Well, it's a little trickier than that. Your obligation remains and years in the IRR do not count against that obligation. When I deployed my battalion to Iraq in '08, I received 13 IRR Officers/enlisted who had not completed their 8 year obligation. One Major had been out for 17 years! The only way out was to formally resign your commission and some claimed they did, but the paperwork somehow became lost....
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