Posted on Apr 6, 2014
Should the Army stop displaying the flag incorrectly?
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<P>Before anyone comments that it isn't displayed incorrectly, please hear me out! <BR></P>
<P>I absolutely understand that it is displayed so that it appears that the flag is moving forward into battle, rather than retreating from battle. I like the argument.</P>
<P> </P>
<P>However according to US Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, the Union is always to appear to the observers left. It does mention that a "flag patch" may be warn on the uniforms of the members of the Armed Forces, but it does not say that it should have the Union appear the observers right, if worn on the right shoulder. </P>
<P> </P>
<P>Instead of making up arbitrary excuses for why we don't follow the US Flag Code shouldn't we just wear it the correct way, or petition the Congress to pass an amendment to the Code to allow for us to wear it this way?<BR><BR>Here is a few quotes from the U.S. Code, Title 4, Chapter 1. These are the only quotes that I could find after actually reading the entire chapter, (which took me a couple of hours) if you find any more please let me know!<BR><BR>Also, if I understand the law structure correctly, this supercedes the UCMJ and definitely supercedes AR 670-1. If I am incorrect on that, please let me know as well! Thank you!<BR> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><FONT face=Calibri>“The flag should not be draped over the hood, top, sides, or back of a vehicle or of a railroad train or a boat.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>When the flag is displayed on a motorcar, the staff shall be fixed firmly to the chassis or clamped to the right fender." (U.S. Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 7(b))</FONT></FONT></FONT></P><FONT color=#000000><FONT face=Calibri><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3>"When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>to the flag's own right, that is, to the observer's left. When displayed in a window, the flag should be displayed in the same way, with the union or blue field to the left of the observer in the street."(U.S. Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 7(i))</FONT></P><o:p>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3>"No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart."<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>(U.S. Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 8(j))<o:p></o:p></FONT></P></o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT>
<P>I absolutely understand that it is displayed so that it appears that the flag is moving forward into battle, rather than retreating from battle. I like the argument.</P>
<P> </P>
<P>However according to US Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, the Union is always to appear to the observers left. It does mention that a "flag patch" may be warn on the uniforms of the members of the Armed Forces, but it does not say that it should have the Union appear the observers right, if worn on the right shoulder. </P>
<P> </P>
<P>Instead of making up arbitrary excuses for why we don't follow the US Flag Code shouldn't we just wear it the correct way, or petition the Congress to pass an amendment to the Code to allow for us to wear it this way?<BR><BR>Here is a few quotes from the U.S. Code, Title 4, Chapter 1. These are the only quotes that I could find after actually reading the entire chapter, (which took me a couple of hours) if you find any more please let me know!<BR><BR>Also, if I understand the law structure correctly, this supercedes the UCMJ and definitely supercedes AR 670-1. If I am incorrect on that, please let me know as well! Thank you!<BR> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><FONT face=Calibri>“The flag should not be draped over the hood, top, sides, or back of a vehicle or of a railroad train or a boat.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>When the flag is displayed on a motorcar, the staff shall be fixed firmly to the chassis or clamped to the right fender." (U.S. Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 7(b))</FONT></FONT></FONT></P><FONT color=#000000><FONT face=Calibri><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3>"When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>to the flag's own right, that is, to the observer's left. When displayed in a window, the flag should be displayed in the same way, with the union or blue field to the left of the observer in the street."(U.S. Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 7(i))</FONT></P><o:p>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3>"No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart."<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>(U.S. Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 8(j))<o:p></o:p></FONT></P></o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT>
Uniforms
DA Pam 670-1
Flags and Vexillology
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 38
63
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SPC Needham,<div><br></div><div>U.S. Code, Title 4, Chapter 1 applies only to the flag itself, not representations of the flag. Our patch is not a flag; it is a representation of the flag. We don't salute our patch, lower it to half mast, or illuminate it at night, because it is not a flag. Therefore, Title 4 does not apply to our patch or how we display it.</div>
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Sgt Ronald Paden
Sgt Thundercloud, You said it so well, it is a fixed patch.
But if it were a free flowing flag, approached from the right going forward it ’would ‘ flow to the rear as well anyway
But if it were a free flowing flag, approached from the right going forward it ’would ‘ flow to the rear as well anyway
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MSgt Allen Chandler
If that was true then it would be allowed to wear it upside down. It’s not a Play in the sense of it being on the flagpole but it’s a flag.
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PV2 Violet Case
MSgt Allen Chandler - I do agree with you. Our military needs to stay in uniform all the same or they become looking like disorganized disrespectful individuals... Like Biden was the day he broke the flag code on flag day of all days and called it pride day now and hung the pride flag where our flag should have hung. Our country is becoming the laughing stalk of the world it is heart breaking to see. If people do not like the rules or our military and the constitution we are supposed to protect please don't sign up. Showing weakness and disorginization show the enemy this too.
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The easiest solution is to move the flag from the right shoulder to the left shoulder - which solves two problems at once:<div><br></div><div>1. It moves the flag to the left of the wearer - closest to the heart.</div><div>2. It puts the blue field back on the observer's left - as intended.</div><div><br></div><div>BONUS benefit: It still looks like its charging into battle!</div><div><br></div><div>Its a win-win-win for everyone!</div>
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MAJ (Join to see)
The right sleeve is also where we put our combat patch, which denotes the honor of having served our country in a combat theater. But since the flag patch is worn even before one deploys, I would agree that it makes more sense to place it on the left, for the reasons MAJ Bryan Zeski stated.
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MAJ (Join to see)
And not just formations. When walking as a casual group (aka Gaggle Formation), the highest-ranking individual should be on the right side from the perspective of the members of the group.
There's a lot of history to the right side that isn't simply biblical, such as our salute and the origins of that (the dominant hand for most people, although there is conflict over the exact origin of that being the preferred hand*)
*= Some say it dates to medieval knights holding weapons and tipping their visor with the right hand while holding a horse's reins with the left, others say it dates back to roman custom of showing the right hand as not carrying a weapon to indicate you mean no threat, and of course there are other theories.
There's a lot of history to the right side that isn't simply biblical, such as our salute and the origins of that (the dominant hand for most people, although there is conflict over the exact origin of that being the preferred hand*)
*= Some say it dates to medieval knights holding weapons and tipping their visor with the right hand while holding a horse's reins with the left, others say it dates back to roman custom of showing the right hand as not carrying a weapon to indicate you mean no threat, and of course there are other theories.
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MSgt Allen Chandler
SSG(P) (Join to see) - It’s the only flag on your uniform and therefore it’s always the upmost decal
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PV2 Violet Case
It has been tradition of military for decades even centuries to use the right as the prominant. Why do children now day always want to disrespect the traditions or change them? I happy you all joined the military it should be teaching you rules and discipline. But the military were to accomodate every little cry out our military will become a discorganized mess like our country is. The military used to be honored much higher when they were not whining and did as it is supposed to do. I was one of the first women groups trained infantry/combat in the army in 1978 and they were very hard on us because back then women should be home having babies or taking care of them house. Dont you think we wanted to change a few things besides just women being allowed in combat/infantry? When we did try to say anything it was a rub of the thumb across the pointer finger representing this is the smallest violin playing my heart bleeds for you & then he would say suck it up butter cup. And that what I am saying now. If we all did it before you, so can you. stop whining and trying to change our once strong military image and turning it into cry babies. Im sorry but thats the way the military taught me to talk.
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Who remembers the Chocolate Chips? This is a photo from Somalia in the 90s. The right side, or reverse that has dominated since Afghanistan is the result of cooperation between nations to readily identify nationality of Soldiers in multi-national task forces, it is worn on the arm that is raised to render a salute. If you deploy or are otherwise assigned to a multi national location, everyone wears the flag on the right, not just the Americans. Feel free to blame the New World Order or anyone else for our participation in One World Government that created the problem of flying our flag "backwards"...<img src="http://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/0e60244/ [login to see] /resize/652x%3E/quality/85/?url=%2Fcmsmedia%2Fc4%2F27b3698489f12eed422cedb4aa7a46%2F51911widemodern_somalia_011014.jpg" class="img-responsive block-generous" alt="A U.S. Marine patrols the streets of Kismayu, Somalia, on Dec. 20, 1992. " title="(Lynne Sladky/AP)" data-size="rectangle652" height="413" width="620"><div class="pta-link-card"><div class="pta-link-card-content"><div class="pta-link-card-title"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/0e60244/ [login to see] /resize/652x>/quality/85/?url=/cmsmedia/c4/27b3698489f12eed422cedb4aa7a46/51911widemodern_somalia_011014.jpg"></a></div><div class="pta-link-card-description">nA ¶ûE.eûGM·+äNø§»ª41Q$È%UîAÎ>´ó®¸}íÊýhÏÊ»Õ&}Ý«½)ÕÔ
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SSG (Join to see)
MPs traditionally wear their brassards on the left arm. If we moved the flag patch to the left arm, where would the MPs wear their brassards???
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SSG (Join to see)
But CW2 Joseph Evans , the "brassard" these days is just a MP patch worn on the flap of the left shoulder pocket.
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CW2 Joseph Evans
True, but it used to be with multinational forces, the flag would be displayed on the brassard.
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