Any suggestions as to what can be done to help Soldiers get time to do college courses in person?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 12:04:36 -0500

I think we can all agree that having a college degree is pretty important in this day age, whether you stay in or not. Is anyone else running into the issue of units preaching the importance of college and taking college but gives no time for it? I know I had Soldiers that want to take courses but don't want to do the online option because they learn and retain better in a classroom environment. I think getting an online degree is the only real feasible way to complete college and I try to preach it to my Soldiers. I myself take online courses and have a hard time keeping up with stuff I have to do at work and the stuff I have to do when I get home with the family. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what can be done to help Soldiers get time to do college? (For my command that might read this, this is just a broad question. I have encountered it before and hear Soldiers talk about it all the time.)

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2013 6:24 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 06:24:41 -0500

Yes, and people who aren't my soldiers. I'm basically the education Nazi.

I have gotten through everything the army is willing to pay for. As a 1LT (As of today), I hold an MBA in finance. It was very challenging so I am taking a prolonged tactical pause before moving to a second Masters or PhD.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2013 6:34 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 06:34:33 -0500

LT, you're not the only education Nazi. Aside from preaching financial security that is the one thing I preach often, if not overdoing it. It feels great counseling my Soldiers on the benefits of education but also showing them that I'm practicing what I preach. We all know it's easy to tell a Soldier do this, that and the third without questioning but not many Leaders tells their subordinates AND show them.

Remember, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!!!!!

Response by SFC Christopher Walker, MAOM, DSL made Nov 26 at 2013 8:41 AM

SFC Christopher Walker, MAOM, DSL — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:41:24 -0500

Yes I do. I counsel all of my Soldiers and NCOs monthly on
the importance of civilian education. I "highly encouraged" all of subordinates
to attend college. All of my Soldiers and NCOs are enroll in some type of
associates or bachelors program to include myself. I completed two associates
last year and I’m three classes away from my bachelors. NCOs should lead by
example.

Response by CPT Laurie H. made Nov 26 at 2013 8:49 AM

CPT Laurie H. — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:49:06 -0500

Yes, and I practice what I preach - currently working on my MBA. I have big plans for what comes after that too, many thanks to a senior LT of mine who has gone out of his way to encourage me.

Response by CMC Robert Young made Nov 26 at 2013 1:46 PM

CMC Robert Young — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:46:32 -0500

MSG, I have taken advantage of every educational opportunity the military has offered earning a BS and two MAs in the process. I point to myself as the "if I can do it, you can do it" poster boy for T/A, and college. I was fortunate enough to see several of my subordinates at my last unit earn AA, BA, and BS degrees while we were stationed together. My hope is with new assignment that I'll be able to have the same effect.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2013 2:38 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 14:38:27 -0500

I definitely push my Soldiers to explore their educational option. Many I have helped find good online programs from reputable schools so that they may continue to maintain their full-time job and support their family while furthering their education. It is strange that many Soldiers have not been educated on how they can use their benefits. At one of my previous units, we had a Soldier who did not realized that their TA and GI Bill could be used to gain aviation certifications. While these benefits are utilized as recruitment tools by recruiters, it seems that many of us leaders do not help reinforce these benefits. College is not for everyone, but that does not mean that their benefits should sit stagnant if they have other goals where self-development can help them.

I started down the path to earning a MBA. However, since I branched Engineer, I feel a need to become more technically education. Due to this, I am currently working on a MS in Construction Management. I also hope to be able to utilize the concurrent Masters program while at ECCC to earn a second MS in Geological Engineering. In this field, I feel that having a certain degree of technical competency and knowledge will go a long way torward some goals that I have set for myself as an Officer. Who knows....maybe I will get to teach at West Point someday.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Jan 18 at 2014 1:46 AM

SSG Robert Burns — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 01:46:00 -0500

The medical side of the house has several different programs to help you finish your degree if you want to be medical. For nursing you get to go to any school you get accepted to in the country for 2 years and that is your only job to finish your degree. You also have PA school which is similar except you graduate from there with your masters degree in the same amount of time without even having your bachelors.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2014 1:50 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 01:50:35 -0500

I think that is inevitable with those cutbacks and I am sad that politics are trumping good sense and our security.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2014 1:52 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 01:52:44 -0500

I think civilian education will give us to say to haters that our education is equal to or better than theirs. Suffering through that on many occasions the tables are turned.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2014 7:42 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 07:42:02 -0500

When I joined the Military, there was not a true education system in place for the enlisted. eArmyU and GoArmyEd did not come about until 2001. Personally I am a huge advocate for our Soldiers continuing to educate themselves. All my NCOs must be enrolled in two correspondence course or one civilian education course.

That being said, not all Soldiers have the aptitude nor desire to strive for a AA or BA degree. Many Soldiers are better with their hands. We have to look at technical certification as a viable lifelong learning opportunity. That is why I make it a civilian education course, rather than a course towards a college degree.

I sit down with all my NCOs and any Soldier that wants a path and I help them figure out how to get there. I also let them know upfront that they are paid to be Infantrymen, not college students. It took me ten years to get my bachelors, and I am currently on my third year of working on my Masters. The military comes first. They have to be able to do online courses so it does not interfer with military duties.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2014 10:04 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 22:04:21 -0500

I am going to be enrolled soon at Embry Riddle Aeronautical University in Quantum Physics. I do better when I can digest and consider what it all means.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2014 11:49 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Jan 2014 23:49:25 -0500

Attending college is a give and take. One must realize that they are active duty and the job comes first. If they can find a way to work some classes into their off time I am all for it. I even let some Soldiers leave at 1500 so they can take class from 1600-2000. Not a problem. The issue is when a Soldier signs up for college then expects the Command to give them all of the time off to attend the class. A lot of planning must going into taking college classes. As a 1SG I do not have the time to attend a brick and mortar environment. I can effectively plan a class around my schedule that I do on my own time online.

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Jan 21 at 2014 11:42 AM

LTC Jason Bartlett — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 11:42:42 -0500

Take weekend courses and night classes. Sacrifice now to gain later.

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Jan 21 at 2014 12:02 PM

Capt Brandon Charters — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:02:35 -0500

I think a big key to this process is communicating what you plan to achieve with your supervisor. It all starts with his or her buy in. A supportive boss/commander/mentor that understands the importance of getting that degree makes a world of difference when it comes to prepping for tests and knocking down credits in quick order. Developing troops should be everyone's priority. I applaud anyone who takes that initiative.

Response by SFC Stephen P. made Jan 21 at 2014 1:34 PM

SFC Stephen P. — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:34:15 -0500

"I think we can all agree that having a college degree is pretty important in this day age"

I do not agree. That concept has been pushed for decades and has only resulted in an educational arms race, higher tuition, and graduates who cannot employ what they learned in an actual trade. The degree, in many cases, has been reduced to a badge of tenacity.

My question is, in what way does a degree for an enlisted servicemember enhance unit readiness? If college is critical to the mission, why is time not already budgeted during the duty day?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2014 4:40 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jan 2014 16:40:03 -0500

tl;dr - bite the bullet and do it online, we're stuck with doing this on our own time because someone is paying us for the duty day.

The question is: Why are you trying to go to college?

If you want to be an officer, go Green to Gold even if you already have a two year degree. That really solves that problem.

If you want to get ahead on the enlisted side, consider this: DA PAM 600-25 recommends an Associates by the time you hit Staff Sergeant. Depending on your MOS, that is anywhere from 7 to 12 years. The full Bachelor's degree isn't a requirement until Master Sergeant. Get each requirement done one grade level prior to the requirement and you're golden.

The brick and mortar college option is only open for after duty hours unless your unit gives you a reenlistment incentive for physical classes. Honestly, do you think it's fair for Uncle Sam to pay us so nicely and then give us the option of taking off from work so we can enrich ourselves and increase promotion potential?

While online college sounds easy, it really isn't. Attending classes in person is little different from doing it on your own at home when it comes to the time invested and self-discipline.
It only gets harder the longer you wait. I was able to do classwork and study during duty hours as a Specialist if I got everything else done. It was easy with a six day schedule in Iraq as a Sergeant. However, being a Staff Sergeant and having a child in garrison made it an exercise in missing sleep and spending every free hour on the weekends staying up to date on three or four classes at a time so I could push through and finish my degree before things got out-of-hand.

Response by SSG Lisa Rendina made Jan 26 at 2014 11:43 PM

SSG Lisa Rendina — Sun, 26 Jan 2014 23:43:58 -0500

I second the idea to have a sit down with your direct supervisor, from there go to the PSG, 1SG, and CDR to explain what your goals are and what both the short and long-term training calendars look like.  This will not only give your COC and NCO Support Channel a heads-up on the pursuits of their Soldiers but will also give you an idea of the demands on your time as a Soldier.  I hold a Masters degree which should have taken a little over a year for the "typical" student to complete.  It took me almost 7 years to complete.  I kept at it as my schedule permitted through a deployment, two PCSs (4 units), a baby, and another pregnancy.  I had to take several terms "off", drop classes due to military requirements, complete work ahead of planned training, request extensions for unplanned/last minute events, not go to bed until 0200 and still be at PT at 0630, and spend the majority of weekends and holidays reading texts and writing papers in order to complete the coursework.  Some units were more flexible and allowed me to work on coursework during the duty day or allow me to leave early on the day my night class was scheduled, one unit I had exactly 20 minutes of free time the entire course during the duty day (I was able to submit one discussion response) and the rest of the class was completed after duty hours and on the weekends.   But, I stuck with it and am proud of what I accomplished.  As others have also mentioned; if it is important to you, you will make the time.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2014 8:54 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Mar 2014 20:54:12 -0500

One of the biggest extras I push Soldiers to do is work on their college education. I also practice what I preach, because I did not follow this advice for many years after joining the Army. It took me three years of being in to finally step foot into an education center. Now I have completed an Associates, Bachelors, and am working on my Masters! Times are getting tough, and with the Army downsizing, promotions and retention will get more competitive. I strongly believe that civilian education is a very effective, and inexpensive way to stand out from your peers!

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Mar 21 at 2014 11:21 PM

SSG Mike Angelo — Fri, 21 Mar 2014 23:21:34 -0400

SSG Michael,

Like in any project, there needs to be a project champion to back you up in your endeavors. Go ahead and wire-in the college script or path for PFC Snuffy. Record your steps and Train the Trainer at NCOPD or Town Hall which ever. Do not let the status quo stop you from succeeding as a leader and change agent. Maybe its time to wire-in college in the enlisted career path.

Remember, officers CMF are wired in for college and enlisted CMFs are not. So what is the desired outcome for enlisted college path? To better prepare for a competitive advantage on the outside...civilian world? Hmmm...sounds fair deal with all these proposed drawdowns, RIFs and cutbacks.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 8:12 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Dec 2014 08:12:07 -0500

Education should be a priority, but it has to be a priority to not only the Soldier to get the time off from his command for class, but also to achieve the proper grades in the class.
One of the ways that I have see it worked best, is that your above average performers are given education incentives and the understanding that as long as they continue to perform in the top whatever you want to make it percentage they can get a certain ammount of time per week to attend class. Also with the understanding that the command gets to see their grades and if those aren't up to whatever you want to make the standards than they lose the additional time for classwork.
I know it sounds barbaric to hold people accountable, but it worked and worked well.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 8:24 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Dec 2014 08:24:01 -0500

I finish my bachelors degree this week and have done so while being deployed and having a family. It can be done, but you have to sacrifice your personal time to get ahead of your peers. That why degrees are viewed so highly. The Army has a mission to conduct and obviously can allow Soldiers to attend college during work hours or others will have to cover down for them. Of course exceptions can be made, as a Platoon sergeant I got a Soldiers approved to do this. This is were online degrees are so important. Complete your degree own your own time and you only have to request the TA. Getting a degree depends on the determination of the individual. Good job on asking the questions in order to take of Soldiers! Leadership qualities at work!

Response by TSgt Kevin Buccola made Dec 28 at 2014 11:52 AM

TSgt Kevin Buccola — Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:52:14 -0500

Early in my career I signed up for many classes and then with deployments etc I had to withdraw. My transcript was filled with W's and I's. I still found the time to complete. Once I realized I should only take 1 class at a time it was better. It took me 5 years to complete the BA. With all the CLEP and DANTES test that are available now you can knock it out a lot quicker.

As for preaching Education - yes any supervisor or anyone should preach the importance of training and education - but to give you time to do it - depends on the mission. I have worked with young Airmen around their schedules so they could go to classes during the day. Again depends on the mission and we are all adults - you have to plan your education.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2015 11:50 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 11:50:00 -0500

Good evening everyone. I am at the end of my career in 20 months. I am on shore duty and only two of us are working on our degrees with a command of 12. Its funny because me and the other guy an E-5 both graduated in August of last year with our Bachelor's and both are working on Master's Degrees. As the command LPO I have to practice what I tell my subordinates. I also have to manage my time with the family and my course work load. It can be done, you just may have to lose a little sleep, eat lunch while reading/writing a paper. Its all about time management.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 26 at 2015 6:01 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:01:22 -0400

My NCOs and I allowed soldiers to go to classes during the day time if the mission accomplishment was unchanged.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2015 7:23 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Oct 2015 07:23:33 -0400

When I was working on my MBA I stayed up many nights for a couple of hours after putting my kids to bed. Jobs aren't going to let you schedule work around school, so if you want it while you are in, online is the way to go. It sucks for a couple of years, but pays off in the end!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 17 at 2015 8:59 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 20:59:47 -0500

If you can afford to, give them time off. If not they can go to school or do it online. If you want something bad enough you will do it.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Nov 17 at 2015 11:51 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 23:51:39 -0500

SSG Private RallyPoint Member Going to school online, while working a full time career that has crazy hours, coupled with still serving=CRAZINESS, but it has to be done (well not really, but I WANT it to be done). Today, the degree is more important than ever if you want to compete for advancement and opportunities. I push it. Online is the way to go. I would rather go in person, but there is no way to get it done. That is the case for the majority of our audience here. I preach to go after it, however you can, because if you do not, others will.