AR 600-63, Smokeless tobacco

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 02:18:58 -0500

After reviewing the the regulation I'm still confused. So I'm new in the army (hitting my year point in a few weeks) and I was approached by an NCO one night while I was on CQ and they noticed I was dipping. They scolded me, told me to swallow it because it wasn't allowed on duty or in a work place so I took it out and proceeded on with duty. The next day I approached my SL and explained what happened and asked if that was true (I wasn't aware), he told me that smokeless tobacco was in the same category as chewing gum & said it was allowed. Seeing as I got mixed answers I decided to look at the regulation & from what I understand, I have to go to the smoke put everything I want a dip? Idk about yall but you can't just enjoy a dip for 3-5 minutes like a cigarette smoker would. I see countless guys(E1-E7) in the motorpool and office with dips in and they're neither approached by any NCOS or the officers here. Can anyone explain this further? Dipping in barracks, in the shop(I work alone in my own shop), dipping in public etc. thank you!

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2015 3:09 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 03:09:39 -0500

Smokeless Tobacco is categorized under "Tobacco", The military as a whole is trying to steer it's troops away from tobacco usage in general. With that said you have smokers and you have smokeless tobacco users, if one tobacco user is allowed to indulge in nicotine while inside or in a public area, why can't the other? Why because tobacco in general is harmful to your health and the military is not going to promote its usage. There are areas through out the military where you will find that dipping is acceptable, most of these area's however are out of the public's sight, such as the motor pool, or a construction site and is generally accepted by all those with in the working area, but you must understand your surroundings and have situational awareness, if you see someone from outside the shop coming to your work area, it should probably trigger a reaction from you to either take the dip out or if you have small dip, "gut" it.

if you want more specific information on the matter you will need to start with DOD instructions then work your way down, As we all work for the DOD, it will have the least stringent rules and then they will only get stricter on your way down to your level.

The following link is a Surgeon General Article on Tobacco Restrictions within the military.
http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/reports/50-years-of-progress/sgr50-chap-14-app14-1.pdf

FYI If you were to go by the book, tobacco usage within any federal building is prohibited, this includes dipping, e-cigs, etc.

Ô íPa't8µ8Lú=BhÁQR¡à1Å}çùL)IÊS$2ïsBS¡âìÃ8k¿Kº#üpvçé ÆéÅÛlP70åÞÝñ1\diÝfrþÎpVTb^ÿøæÒEYà*ÛÝ=BÉìÝª6ú8mÖAO:øÚÁ§ûöDWmK.áîô ìA»2`ãtî/óTÐòßNÏåmëd!tæ%Mu§ßíí4ÍJ¶ÙÕ·q+lwÏaË5ÇZt#ZæàûÜòùÛåt`pðN[aàÕnû%öú%Þl»ä>sÜÄÀÓs9úÅUbÝ/Û«EIÜÀç,F ¶iFørËÐÆúáâÚösßQ3ÕÖÔùSùSFAde3hsd §ÑìRÇãIÉ|Îátå]6À)Á|4+üÀ5 +ðná¶ Â7¿ h:ÓyCx$Kñw:`yÐÓaTL@§Á(~Ô0Êæ9açÙD§ÃwH`)d@KÁ¶+ÑÒJÅÙ~ÀyVjÛC~D#EüÅ,h(¡äëÌá~ÂäÍ&IÃE&pdO#áxÇp§úï"ÆÉó»«î);MtpÖ)ïmohoUÄ¡ÏÑTÃýå§ëOW¿7Pÿèªx`tð^èr0îí(«...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2015 10:00 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 10:00:55 -0500

PV2 Morter, here is your answer:

Army Regulation 600-63, Army Health Promotion, paragraph 7 to 3a, which states: "Tobacco use is prohibited in all Department of the Army occupied workplaces except for designated smoking areas, as authorized by DODI 1010.15, Smoke-Free DOD Facilities. The workplace includes any area inside a building or facility over which DA has custody and control, and where work is performed by military personnel, civilians or persons under contract to the Army."

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Nov 18 at 2015 11:05 AM

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 11:05:14 -0500

Dipping and spitting is nasty but it's not a big deal to me - I can remember when Soldiers smoked in their offices and in the barracks. We had beer vending machines in the barracks. There’s a time and a place for this and know you may get corrected for doing it. Be smart. I use snus - no spitting and no one will likely know it's in your mouth. Or quit.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2015 8:37 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 20:37:45 -0500

Thanks for the responses. And you pointed out if one nicotine user can indulge why can't the other? My response is smoking tobacco and smokeless are completely opposite to an extent. Cigarettes are nasty, leaves the walls smelling, yellowing, ashes everywhere. With dip it doesn't bother anyone else, sure if they see you spit it might be bothersome but as long as you keep it hidden I don't see the problem, You Know? anyhow, thank you!

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Nov 18 at 2015 8:54 PM

SSG Carlos Madden — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 20:54:05 -0500

Tobacco use is not allowed in federal buildings/facilities. Thats the rule, but people don't follow it.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Nov 19 at 2015 3:50 AM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 03:50:05 -0500

Be a man and gut it! :)

In all seriousness though, by regulation the NCO who corrected you WAS correct.
I dipped my entire 20 years in the Navy and ran into the same issues. Some supervisors wanted me to dip in the smoke pit while others didn't give a shit as long as I didn't walk around with a huge wad in my lip, spit dripping out of my mouth, carrying around an open spit cup, etc.

What I do now is I use the Skoal pouches. I've gotten my "fix" down to two pouches a dip and I also spit very rarely. I don't gut it, but it doesn't produce very much saliva at all.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2015 7:56 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 07:56:48 -0500

It's similar in Navy, and usually depends on where you're doing it and who sees you. Typically on watch is a big no-no, while in your workspace is fine as long as you're tidy and you remove the dip if higher ups enter the area.

Response by CH (LTC) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2018 8:59 PM

CH (LTC) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Dec 2018 20:59:06 -0500

Here's the deal. The Army is operating under the assumption that smokeless tobacco is just as dangerous as inhaling carbon monoxide into your lungs. The assumption is categorically false and has never been proven. In fact, the opposite has been proven scientifically (see tobbacoharmreduction.org): smokeless tobacco has been proven to be a safe way to quit the very harmful habit of smoking cigarettes. The Army hasn't figured this out yet, but individuals in the Army are figuring it out. In fact, in a recent visit to my Army dentist, he told me he is not discouraging smokeless tobacco use anymore because it produces saliva that helps prevent cavities. Hopefully the Army leadership in MEDCOM will catch on to this soon and continue to discourage smoking and encourage dipping as a way to help quit smoking.

Response by CH (LTC) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2018 9:17 PM

CH (LTC) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Dec 2018 21:17:49 -0500

ALCON: see: http://www.tobaccoharmreduction.org/faq/healtheffectsofst.htm
There is a TON of evidence that smoking is a major health hazard but NO evidence that smokeless tobacco is a hazard at all. In fact, it has been shown scientifically that if you are a smoker and have a nicotine addiction, switching to smokeless tobacco is a much safer alternative. The carcinogenic factor in tobacco (like most anything else) gets fired up, quite literally, when the tobacco gets fired up, that is when it's burned. The carcinogenic factor is tobacco smoke (with its high content of carbon monoxide--just like any kind of smoke is carcinogenic). The carcinogenic factor in smokeless tobacco is about the same as found in broccoli, or ANY other plant that you stick in your mouth and spit out. I surely hope that the Army figures this out and gets rid of the smokeless tobacco prohibitions in AR 600-63. They are clearly relying on popular opinion here. Using smokeless tobacco is a very safe and effective means of quitting smoking. See the attachment for a start, but do your own research instead of letting the Army do it for you.
This regulation is based on bad science with no research. In fact, in a recent visit to an Army dentist he told me that he is no longer discouraging smokeless tobacco use in his patients because it produces saliva which helps fight cavities. Furthermore there is no causal connection between ST use and any form of mouth cancer (however there is MAJOR causal connection between smoking and/or heavy drinking, but read the article I posted. There are others online, but this is from an endowment from the University of Alberta that is trying to help people quit smoking concluding that smokeless tobacco use is a safe way to do that.

FAQ: Health Effects (tobaccoharmreduction.org)

Contrary to popular belief, smokeless tobacco is not a major health hazard. In fact, it has not been definitively linked to any deadly disease. More important, to the extent that it causes any risks, the scientific evidence clearly shows that the risks are very small (See Lee & Hamling 2009).