Are esprit de corps runs still relevant? If yes, at what echelon?

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Jan 2017 05:45:26 -0500

Response by SSG Shavonde Chase made Jan 5 at 2017 5:47 AM

SSG Shavonde Chase — Thu, 05 Jan 2017 05:47:08 -0500

Yes, they are. Sometimes this is the only time we see people from sister units. Plus, this is a good time to "bond" with the commander and 1SG.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Jan 5 at 2017 5:51 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Thu, 05 Jan 2017 05:51:03 -0500

This also gives rise to a war-story of sorts: While on an early morning battalion run back on Okinawa in 74 or so, the battalion CO and his staff took a sudden right turn just in front of me. Unfortunately i did not catch it quickly enough and continued on straight ahead with the rest of the bn behind me. Leaving the CO and staff standing in the middle of the street by themselves as their bn trotted past. Needless to say this did not go over well and I heard about it in no uncertain terms shortly thereafter. No, it didn't help my career either..

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2017 6:12 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Jan 2017 06:12:12 -0500

Definitely. Company-organized runs are a great opportunity to cultivate unit cohesion, and to foster organizational pride and camaraderie.

At the battalion, and brigade-level, organized formation runs instill battalion, and/or brigade pride, but also provide the Battalion Command Team, and/or Brigade Command Team the opportunity to assess the "pulse" of their formations, as well as build professional relationships with their peers, and subordinates.

Response by PFC Jim Wheeler made Jan 5 at 2017 6:16 AM

PFC Jim Wheeler — Thu, 05 Jan 2017 06:16:52 -0500

At the peon level? No.

Nearly everyone I knew dreaded them. I'm not sure how those at higher ranks feel about them, but I never met anyone who looked forward to them. Can't say I've ever met anyone who got any "organizational pride" from them either.

Pace was too slow, too much jogging in place as the formation slinkied, etc. Plus the lower enlisted never see anyone new. They just run alongside the same people they would run with on any other day. The only difference is they have to do it in a longer formation.

From my limited experience.

Response by 1SG Al Brown made Jan 5 at 2017 7:58 AM

1SG Al Brown — Thu, 05 Jan 2017 07:58:43 -0500

Esprit de corps runs provide validation to commanders that they can quickly move a division via a simple OPORD. That is an important action. As an NCO, I didn't have time to buy into the "happiness", as we were moving the monster.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2017 8:10 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Jan 2017 08:10:20 -0500

I might be in minority, but I always loved company runs. If the pace is too slow for you, run up grab the guidon, and circle the formation. Yell the whole way around the formation, and if you're not tired out by that do it again! In my ARNG platoon, we made it a point to get the guidon early in the run or road ruck, and keep it for as long as we could. A few times we got yelled at to let other platoons have it.
Because I was National Guard, I've never done a run above battalion level, but even that I enjoyed.

Response by PO3 Donald Murphy made Jan 5 at 2017 9:00 AM

PO3 Donald Murphy — Thu, 05 Jan 2017 09:00:26 -0500

I'm sorry, whats an "esprit de corps run?" Just joking. We don't run in the Navy. Unless its to make it back to ship before liberty expires...

Response by CW4 Guy Butler made Jan 5 at 2017 9:09 AM

CW4 Guy Butler — Thu, 05 Jan 2017 09:09:24 -0500

They give me a chance to chat with the BSLs from other units. We tend to stroll more as well, in order to avoid passing the formation...

Response by SGT Morrison (Mike) Hogwood made Jan 5 at 2017 9:20 AM

SGT Morrison (Mike) Hogwood — Thu, 05 Jan 2017 09:20:49 -0500

Back when I was stationed at Ft Carson,once a year we did Division runs,the whole Post,I liked them but an all day affair,I did not care for BDE runs .We were singing cadence about the Col,he diverted from pavement to freshly snowed on tank trail,while in boots,nothing like few extra pounds of mud.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Jan 5 at 2017 9:30 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Thu, 05 Jan 2017 09:30:46 -0500

Yes. Personally I feel they are relevant at every level. You want to feel a connection to the unit you are in. I come from a small work center. Unless something was wrong, most people wouldn't know I exist. But being part of a formation run brings us back to the one unit one fight mentality where we are all in this together.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jan 5 at 2017 9:37 AM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Thu, 05 Jan 2017 09:37:02 -0500

I believe they are. When I was at my last base, we had Group PT every Wednesday. Sometimes it included runs and sometimes it was brutal cross fit type training. But everyone did it. 6 Squadrons formed up and every week it was led by one of the squadrons, they rotated. You fell in formation wherever you were, not by squadron. It showed the importance of being a unit from top down. It put people together that never saw each other because they have different AFSC's and worked in different facilities. They got to know each other and what each other brought the fight. It built networking, esprit de corps, morale etc. People actually looked forward to it from the senior leaders down.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2017 1:30 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Jan 2017 13:30:29 -0500

If you like giant miles long Slinkys they're great! I remember back in 99 at Ft. Hood, when it was still occupied by both 4th ID and 1st Cav, we did a III Corps "run". That Charlie foxtrot stretched the length of Battalion Ave. By the time the end got going the front was already done. When you were actually moving you were dodging landmines left by the 1CD Horse Det. What great funat the Great Place!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2017 5:33 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 17:33:12 -0500

I liked them at BN level. I was the company guidon bearer for a good part of my time during active duty. Because we were the HSC, we ran in front, right behind the BN command staff. That meant I was usually the one to initiate the run-around-the-formation challenges (or often my CO turning his head back at me saying "go!"). I was a much better runner then, and I loved the looks of hatred from the other companies' bearers when I ran past and they knew they had to meet the challenge.

The other bonus, in my opinion, was it gave me a chance to stretch out a bit from the horrid pace...even as the lead element.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jun 29 at 2018 9:04 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Fri, 29 Jun 2018 09:04:49 -0400

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member - As for the Esprit de Corps Runs? I would ask whose? This doesn't answer the key questions of : Will your soldiers follow you?
Unfortunately, like most intangibles, a unit's esprit de corps not be readily apparent, BUT its absence is obvious.
The lack presents in new soldiers not yet integrated into the unit and units that have not been bloodied (together) when facing new circumstances.
Even veteran elements that are 'tired' can have a lapse upon facing a sudden crisis. History has shown that veterans that face a slow, gradual increase in 'pressure' often hold out well beyond command expectations. Bastogne, Pusan, Heartbreak, 73 Easting and others are the best example of conventional war actions. There are thousand of example where small element have fought where situations (sometimes won, sometimes lost) have been key for a larger unit's success.
Planning physically rigorous team activities and mentally stressful chain of of command (including NCOs) exercises are a major way to train and build Esprit de Corps. You have an end game, accept failure, praise the best efforts. promote self-honesty and put forth realistic goals at each level of development.
I hope this my comments helped explain my observations.

My final is to say that these types of runs are another, inexpensive and easily applied 'Gage' for the commander.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 20 at 2018 12:04 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 12:04:41 -0400

Why not? 1. It requires the entire Bde/Div to muster and run. 2. It lets the superior commander see his troops and what shape they are in. 3. It can be an indicator of morale. 4. It is at a slower pace- so if you have fall outs, you can catch them before they get into career ending trouble. We even did them with Corps echelons (Corps HQ/support units)