Are NCOs underrated in Corporate America?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 09:10:48 -0400

I am at the finish line of my transition from active duty. I've squared away my Texas National Guard enlistment to continue serving part-time and I've been applying for jobs daily.

Last summer, I commented about the programs that corporate America has to offer Junior Military Officers, or JMOs, as they leave military service. I still understand the thought process behind this recruiting practice, and still do not want to take anything away from it. I still and always will believe that JMOs are a vital part of the military. By virtue of the things they do in uniform and the positions they hold, they have skills and experiences that can transfer to the corporate world in a major way.

But what about the leaders that helped shape these JMOs as they entered the operational force of their particular services? What about Non-commissioned leaders that helped these JMOs develop into true leaders? Where are the NCO programs for the enlisted leader who has just as much leadership experience, if not more in some cases.

To get to the root of this issue, we have to first examine the role of the Non-commissioned Officer. From an Army perspective, these folks have 2 basic responsibilities: accomplish the mission by taking the Commander’s intent and making it reality and looking out for the welfare of the junior Soldiers, professionally and personally. Additionally, many of these enlisted leaders are also doing the same duties as junior officers. In fact, it is safe to say that most JMOs probably learned how to correctly accomplish these duties from an NCO. As an E-5, I have helped mold quite a few JMOs by training them on how to meet and exceed expectations of the senior leadership within the unit. When my former 1LT Platoon Leader needed guidance on our communication equipment to include in a brief to the Brigade commander, who did he turn to? The NCOs in the platoon. Who did he ask to proofread said brief before submitting it to his boss? The NCOs in the platoon. So, if these Non-commissioned Officers, or NCOs, are the ones getting the job done and indeed training these officers, who may become “Leaders of Industry” in the civilian world, why do not more Non-commissioned Officer programs exist in the corporate world?

Part of the problem is that Non-commissioned Officers are just that…Non-commissioned, that is to say, they either do not have the college degree required to receive a commission in the military or they do have the degree, but choose not to be officers. The issue is that many civilian leadership positions require a Bachelors Degree. This poses yet another interesting question…who may be a better candidate for a supervisory position in a civilian job, based off of education and experience…the E-5 with a few college credits who has successfully led personnel, helped members of their team move up in rank, and maintained equipment worth astronomical amounts of money for 6 or 7 years, or the 1LT who did some of the same things for 4 years? If the concern is that these enlisted leaders are not well-rounded or “formally educated” enough, then this speaks even more to the need for NCO development programs to help address those concerns and fine tune these proven leaders’ potential in a corporate setting.

I still refer to one company who is looking at this qualified candidate pool. Safeway, a grocery chain in the Western U.S. and Canada, has supported employment of veterans through its JMO/NCO Program. In 2012, Safeway hired nearly 1,500 veterans, including over 1,300 of them in the company's retail stores. Safeway has also committed to hiring at least another 1,500 veterans by the end of 2013.

"We saw an opportunity to recruit new kinds of leaders who will become an important and critical part of our future," said Larree Renda, Safeway’s executive vice president. "Our JMO and NCO recruiting program officially launched in 2010. We accept applicants who have been officers or Non-commissioned Officers in the military and place them in an accelerated leadership program." Graduates qualify for store manager and assistant manager jobs and a range of other manager-level positions in the distribution and backstage departments at Safeway. Additionally, Safeway’s salaries for these positions are not shabby. According to Glassdoor.com, the average total compensation for an assistant manager is $57,214, while store managers’ total pay averages $88,632. If Safeway, and a few other companies, are open-minded enough to acknowledge that NCOs can contribute to the success of the organization in management positions, why don’t other companies?

So, what are the solutions? Yes, “civilianizing” accomplishments and potential on the resume will help separating/retiring enlisted leaders, but only if employers are willing to start recognizing that practical and proven leadership experience should be looked upon in a positive light, just like the college degree. Secondly, NCOs should seek out higher education while serving. The money is there, and best of all, it is free in most cases. Thirdly, companies should continue to hire Veterans into talent acquisition positions. Veterans that recruit for a company have an outlook that those who have never served could not understand and know what NCOs can offer a company. Also, establish programs that hone in on those enlisted leaders who can and have led in high-stress situations, but may not have sought out college education.

My hope is that more companies learn that JMOs are not the only capable leaders leaving the military, nor are they the only educated leaders leaving the military. For example, I am a Non-commissioned Officer in the United States Army with a Bachelor of Arts in Communication and a Master of Science in Information Technology Management. I have more education than every JMO in my unit and more leadership experience, both in the Army and private sector. Is it fair to say that I can handle a management level position in corporate America?

In the Army, we say "NCOs Lead the Way". I hope corporate America begins to notice how true this is.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 9:11 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 09:11:53 -0400

LinkedIn is a great tool to connect with other Veterans as well. Look for me there if you would like and let's connect!

Response by Sgt David G Duchesneau made Jul 8 at 2015 9:15 AM

Sgt David G Duchesneau — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 09:15:11 -0400

Yes they are! In Vietnam, the NCO in the bush was very essential to a successful completion of any Operation. Without the NCO, the skipper would have complete chaos among the troops and the objection at hand. You bet your ass we are underrated!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 10:02 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 10:02:37 -0400

Yes, I believe we are. We're not in command positions or authority, but it isn't uncommon to see an NCO do the duties an officer would be expected to be doing.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jul 8 at 2015 10:02 AM

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 10:02:50 -0400

SGT Private RallyPoint Member I think it depends. I don't think so.

The are issues with rank, branch and skills, and certifications and education. Education matters on the outside more than what you did in the Army.

In my branch, NCOs are the life blood... we are squad based branch. But, the Army and the outside are not always one in the same.

But, when you get out, it depends on what rank you are, if you are being hired by companies that understand the military. Colonels go to different jobs, generally, than LTCs, MAJs, or Captains. Similarly, the same holds true for NCOs. A SSG or SGT getting out, is not the same as a CSM, or a CSM who worked at the nominative level. That said, many employers are not familiar with the military or the rank structure, so education and leadership experience matter most.

The other thing that matters, is what do you do the in Army... some jobs have utility on the outside, some do not. Some jobs come with certifications, that are applicable on the outside. Some jobs, honestly have few transferable skills, aside from general leadership and management. (eg. You are a Infantry, Airborne Ranger (etc) SFC/1SG, no college, and you retire/or medically retired... what will you do? What can your really offer? I have seen more than one like that around here... that have few options.)

I know retired CSMs who senior level managers and corporate leaders, and I know a senior officers who can't find jobs... So, it depends.

That said, I believe five things about transitioning.

1. The more education you have, the better... More is better - both traditional education and certifications for jobs you are seeking. AA is not really a big deal, nor is BS in recent times... It seems we are becoming a Masters based hiring world... The school you go to, matters to. And don't tell me you don't have time. If it matters, you find time. I have seen plenty of NCOs who deploy repeatedly... and find the time... if it matters.

2. When leaving (before leaving), you have to make a decision. Do you want location, or as money as you can make. That drives many things, and these are often not synonymous.

3. Many military folks have a sense of entitlement and believe they deserve more, and are qualified to do more than they are. No one owes you a thing, nor do they need you. You need them.

4. Networking and connections matter. Your reputation matters. A good reputation, built over a career will open many doors. While a bad reputation is hard to fix; impossible. Many jobs (most, I think) are obtained through your networking contacts, and based on your reputation. (eg. The job I have, and the jobs I was considering were all based on contacts, and my reputation... People asking me to do things.)

5. Last, considering all I said above, you need to be happy first and foremost; in and out of the Army. After 33 years in the Army, I was looking to do something different, with less stress, hours, etc... Responsibility wears on you.. I am still responsible, but it is different. I could have made more money elsewhere... lots more, but it is not always about the money. I received an offer I couldn't refuse, and all things considered, it was the best option for me and my family.

I hope that was helpful. Good Luck!!! Thanks for your service, your comments, and your continued service.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 10:32 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 10:32:20 -0400

Yes.

When I was our BN Trans OIC in Kuwait (with zero trans experience, not even having attended TC BOLC), I relied HEAVILY on my NCO, at least in the early stages of our BN inheriting that mission.

He was very educated, very intelligent, and very capable of running the show all on his own.

I consider myself fortunate, though.

He taught me many things, and I always strove hard to maintain a good working relationship between us.

Maybe this is leadership 101, but, where I lacked in experience, that deployment taught me the importance of capitalizing on opportunities to deflect credit downward. I know it is common for individuals to want to take all the credit/glory for themselves, but, an air of trust comes about when a leader isn't afraid to give credit where credit is due. I took ownership of my mission, but I also knew that there was ALOT I didn't know, would have to learn, and, for that, I relied on my NCO quite a bit.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 11:28 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 11:28:21 -0400

Could you please post some commentary on this. I would like to see your insight and thoughts on this. I think it would aid in the discussion in the forum.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jul 8 at 2015 12:00 PM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 12:00:14 -0400

SGT Private RallyPoint Member I can tell you there are a lot of industries and employers out there that don't understand the role of the NCO in the service branches and I believe they need to be educated. I till to this day have individuals come up to me in my company and say, "So your were a sergeant in the military?" and my reply is, "Yes, back in 1980! I retired as a Colonel” They really don't understand the responsibilities that NCOs have in everyday leading, directing, planning, and executing. If they can't even remember what they saw on your resume, then how can they understand what your net worth is as a future employee. I don't think there underrated; I think corporate America is clueless (not all employers). Those who have done their research and are hiring veterans understand, but I believe that is a small percentage of the total corporations in America. How do we get the word and level of undestanding out to Corporate America?

Response by SPC Troy Mclendon made Jul 8 at 2015 12:25 PM

SPC Troy Mclendon — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 12:25:04 -0400

If you are ex military don't expect any special treatment but expect low-income because people that are not military or ex military really don't give a shit what you have done for this country nco or co it don't matter homeless here I come well almost

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Jul 8 at 2015 12:36 PM

Capt Brandon Charters — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 12:36:53 -0400

This is highly dependent on who the employer is. I've seen companies like Farmers, Eaton, Randstad, and Time Warner Cable who highly regard NCO experience. When I talk to recruiters who don't know what an NCO is, I mention that these are the technical experts, leaders, and overall backbone of the US military. I've been pleased to see that there is an increasing number of employers who desire this experience. Joseph Wong Lucas Buck LT George Bernloehr SFC Chad Sowash Michelle Titus

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Jul 8 at 2015 3:45 PM

Maj Chris Nelson — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 15:45:09 -0400

I would suspect that part of why NCOs may feel "under-rated" in the Cooperate World may be related to how they represent themselves. I have been working on my resume in preparation to my military retirement as an RN. A person would think that an RN is an RN is an RN....military and civilian. While this is true....it is also WAY off the mark. Look at the resume. How many acronyms are on it? How much "military speak" is on it? An NCO, or as Corporate America may know it as "a sergeant" does not compute to the amount of responsibility and leadership/management experience. It must be detailed in the language that a civilian hiring manager can and will understand. NCOIC of Section/Platoon/etc means nothing to them.... Managed staffing, scheduling and daily duties for 15 individuals means much more to them. Talk about money.... Equipment custodian for section equipment says little..... Resource manager responsible for $1.2 million in 8 vehicles and support equipment says much more.... you get the picture. Another example would be Flight Commander (or Platoon Leader/Company Commander, etc) says nothing.... However Department Supervisor or Medical and Health Services Manager combined with a civilian description of what I did in those positions MEANS something to a civilian hiring authority. You MUST get into the language of a perspective employer....if not, you WILL be looked over because they don't UNDERSTAND what you are capable of.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Feb 29 at 2016 3:05 PM

SSG Audwin Scott — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 15:05:45 -0500

If the NCO doesn't have an education, then it is very well possible to be underrated in Corporate America. Job skills don't necessarily matter but having a degree in hand along with military goes along way.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jun 27 at 2018 4:19 AM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 04:19:35 -0400

Absolutely spot-on ... we junior NCOs are the ‘doers’ the see to it the job gets done
Guys and Gals.. we’ve ‘been there and done that’... Them Lts are relying on us
To make the project they’ve been given
Gets done... with he assistance from Jr
Enlisted personnel that we direct and work with to get the job done.. So go talk to us and we can let who ever know it can actually be accomplished ‘or not...

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jun 27 at 2018 10:06 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 10:06:42 -0400

THey really don't understand the role of NCO's.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 19 at 2019 3:48 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 19 Sep 2019 15:48:05 -0400

I can attest to many NCOs having left AD who are working in corporate America in everything from travel industry to banking, and more. It is simply how one portrays their service in their resume, and how they convey that same experience in an interview.

Networking all available resources and building ones resume gets you in the door. I assure you that Junior Officers do not transition into high paying jobs in corporate America as a rule. They have the very same issues and frustrations. That is not to say that certain institutions do get them into an interview quicker; West Point, VMI, And Ivy League grads.

I believe, based on personal knowledge that NCOs can do very well if they dot their Is and cross their Ts. Thank you for your service.