Are Top Brass afraid to make changes in Army regulations, customs and courtesies?

SPC Anthony Schepis — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 02:54:33 -0400

I just don't understand why some things in the Army haven't died out. We all know that there's some ridiculous regulations, customs, and courtesies. You would think that after many years of hard work the soldiers who make these positions would want to make some changes. Are they afraid to change them or do they whole heartedly agree with them?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2017 4:27 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 04:27:34 -0400

Can you provide some examples of what you consider rediculous so that we can have an informed discussion?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2017 7:27 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 07:27:16 -0400

It's not the fact that they are afraid to make changes, it's that they believe there are more important things like painting rocks, picking the grass out of rocks, surfing facebook, streaming youtube, having coffee with friends etc. In my experience, a lot of Soldiers don't like change and believe if it was good enough for those who came before us, it's good enough for us. Not too many people actually "know" the regulations or even read them.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jul 6 at 2017 11:51 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 11:51:22 -0400

Change is difficult. I worked for 6 year as a DAC trying to make changes that would improve efficiency and quality in the transportation business. It was hard. Even when we had Commanding General support, change was often completely and successfully resisted. Consequently, some senior officers and civilians choose the "if it works, don't fix it" approach to management. The key word is "works." Some processes and things work quite well and truly don't need fixing. Often things work because of exceptional human intelligence or brute force making them work. These things and processes should be fixed for the good of the Service Members and Civilians who use them and cost savings.

Another factor in preventing change is the civilian workforce and the constant rotation of military officers. DACs tend to stay in one location and one job for many years. Officers are assigned to command for 2 years and in a single location for no more than 4 years in general. If the DACs believe an officer is attempting to make changes detrimental to them or the organization, then they can slow-roll the change and outlast the officer. In this way "the way we've always done it" is perpetuated and new ideas are successfully resisted.

Finally, there's organizational inertia. Large organizations such as an Army Major Command or the entire Department of the Army, are more difficult to turn than the Navy's largest Aircraft Carrier. Once the organization is headed along a certain path toward a mission-vision-goal set, it is very difficult to steer in a different direction quickly. Changing the strategic direction of these large organizations takes time, patience, and persistence on the part of senior leadership. This is a very difficult task given the issues I discussed in the two paragraphs above; however, it isn't impossible. There's also the "tradition" factor. Some processes or actions have become Army tradition. Tradition takes on an almost religious aura in the Army. "241 years of tradition unhampered by progress" is a joke, but has a grain of truth. Traditions shape the way Soldiers and civilians do things and the way they establish and maintain relationships, professional and personal. Because of their near-sacred quality, traditions are very difficult to change or abolish. Most Senior Offices won't mess with a tradition unless it's clearly become injurious to the Service. Example: read RP posts on the Navy's attempt to change the enlisted rates and ranks system in 2016. Tradition won!

Response by CSM Clifford Fargason made Jul 6 at 2017 12:20 PM

CSM Clifford Fargason — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 12:20:12 -0400

You might want to look at history before saying leadership never makes changes. When I came in the service uniform had a winter and summer version. Change was made on a certain calendar date and it didn't matter where you were stationed, it might be 90 degrees out, but the calendar dictated wool. Your cotton fatigues would be starched, but they finally changed that to allowing permanent press uniforms. If you were a trooper in the southwest during the Indian Wars you would wear wool uniforms all year long.

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Jul 6 at 2017 12:59 PM

SGT Christopher Hayden — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 12:59:02 -0400

You lost me at this one: "Standing at attention and parade rest when addressing superiors."

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2017 1:33 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 13:33:37 -0400

SPC Anthony Schepis - You truly think that in the last 242 years that the Army has not changed at all? I think you are just naïve because of your youth. Perhaps you don't have any good mentorship among your NCOs - or you just don't listen.
The things you mention below I can't even believe you mention. You've already been corrected but I think you'll realize more if you ever get your stripes.

No one has ever "forced" me to buy expensive clothing items. I buy what I need to replace. When I got the new ACUs, they didn't have a lot of stuff I needed where I am. I went to AAFES online and it was cheaper online actually than in the store. The boots were cheaper, the uniforms, shirts, etc.

Lots of what you mention is local policy - not regulation. I think maybe you should actually read the regulations. You also need to learn about why we have customs and courtesies and many traditions that we have in the Army and in every branch. History is important.

I'm not sure what you thought you were getting into when you enlisted but if you don't want to be part of the Army profession perhaps you need to find something else to do.

Response by SPC(P) Carlos Santini made Jul 7 at 2017 1:28 AM

SPC(P) Carlos Santini — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 01:28:33 -0400

I do not think they are scared but it is influenced by our politicians.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2017 2:29 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 02:29:51 -0400

I guess ultimately the question is what should be changed?

I'll start, I don't like the black beret. It's wool, it's disrespectful to the Rangers & Airborne (in my opinion), it's Wool, the Garrison Cap was easier to clean (never wore one but I've been told), and it's Wool. I say we go back to the Garrison Cap, it was cloth and easier to maintain.

What's next?
SMA Dailey already covered black socks, rolled up sleeves, and headphones.

I'll go again, the ACU-OCP should have a third pen pocket like the ACU-UCP had. Also we should strengthen the shoulder zipper pockets, I've met two guys who broke theirs already.

AR Policy on wearing the Fleece Cap? It's 32 degree's right? I do believe the local commander has authority on altering that as need be (correct me if I'm wrong). It was 48 on a Field Drill I did and we were allowed to wear them, order was if you're cold don't be cold layer up.
- Side note, found out humvee's suck to sleep in and don't keep the cold out on that drill.

Response by SGT Eric Hawkins made Jul 7 at 2017 4:56 AM

SGT Eric Hawkins — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 04:56:20 -0400

Specialist, you can pray to God that these customs and courtesies, of which you speak, get changed. Just remember, sometimes (like in this case) the answer is "no."

Response by SSG Michael Burdiss made Jul 16 at 2017 11:02 AM

SSG Michael Burdiss — Sun, 16 Jul 2017 11:02:17 -0400

Get rid of all that bs.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2018 6:55 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Jan 2018 06:55:01 -0500

I dont see where any of our customs and courtesies are outdated or ridiculous. Its called heritage and tradition, not to mention respect. Regulations, pamphlets, policy, etc all change frequently based upon doctrine and operating environment.

Response by COL William Oseles made Nov 27 at 2019 1:15 PM

COL William Oseles — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 13:15:07 -0500

Talking in a general broad brush does not allow one to address which regulations, customs or courtesies might be able to use some updates. Change for the sake of change is not a good idea. Need to address specifics.
I have seen it from both sides (E- to E-4 & O-1 to O6) and some things I did not understand in the begining I had a better understanding towards the end of my career.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Nov 29 at 2022 7:15 PM

SSG John Jensen — Tue, 29 Nov 2022 19:15:04 -0500

Tradition is peer pressure from dead people.