Are we giving our overweight soldiers bad advice?

SGT Russell Chewning — Wed, 03 Jun 2020 23:45:32 -0400

As an NCO, I observed it a million times... Overweight soldiers are seen as undisciplined sh*tbirds (which admittedly, sometimes they are..). But how many of our NCOs have educated themselves as to the most common causes of a soldier being overweight.. it's not what you think...

We tell our soldiers they should be eating less. We tell our soldiers they should be exercising more. We tell our soldiers to avoid high fat foods. All of which is generally, bad advice. The human body evolved to use fat as a fuel, and to use carbohydrates to fatten up for winter, when food is scarce. Some people are simply insulin resistant, which means they are more sensitive than most to this effect. They overeat carbohydrates such as bread, rice, sugar, fruit, etc. in even minor amounts, a 3-4lb weight gain per year is inevitable. Working out makes them hungrier. Reducing calories makes them hungrier, and even if they stick to it, reduces muscle mass, which reduces overall caloric expenditure.

Easy mode weight loss for overweight soldiers is simple: Avoid ALL carbs, and replace all the calories removed via carbohydrates with a moderate amount of healthy, non-hydrogenated fat. I wonder.. Is this being taught at PLDC? Or to individual soldiers in basic training?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2020 11:54 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Jun 2020 23:54:52 -0400

That’s because that’s simply not true. Decades of dietary research has shown that long term weight loss is mostly calories in vs calories out. Low carb, high fat, and other fad diets that have been shown to help people lose weight quickly have also been shown to cause rapid weight gain again within one year.
Contrary to what CrossFit tells you, the majority of weight gain is not due to insulin resistance, or inflammatory response, and cavemen did not eat a diet devoid of grains.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jun 4 at 2020 12:08 AM

SSG Brian G. — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 00:08:01 -0400

In a way it is all wrong. The military is treating members like cookie cutters in terms of weight loss when no two are really alike. There are a variety of reasons that a person gains and is resistant to weight loss. The first step to helping members is to change how we look at those that are overweight.

We need to revamp the process to have a 3 tier approach to success. First tier is to have the member undergo a physical to include chem panels to see if there is some imbalance in the body, high or low metabolism etc. The second is nutrition and the third is a Fitness trainer.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2020 12:13 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 00:13:18 -0400

Any advice given on weight-loss should come a nutritionist. Yes yes burn more calories than you consume and you will lose weight. But everyone is not exactly the same and as leaders we can share info but chances are we aren’t nutritionists (some maybe) and shouldn’t develop a plan for others. You may require less calories a day to fuel your body than I do- I was shocked when I had someone show me that I was actually not taking in enough calories. Felt way better and more productive during the day with that correction and my weight loss actually picked up!
We should know the basics and general nutrition should be taught across the board but when it comes to specifics I really think that we should defer to the SME’s.

Response by Sgt Jude Eschete made Jun 4 at 2020 7:19 AM

Sgt Jude Eschete — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 07:19:07 -0400

A few other things, have them screened for depression, have them screened for insomnia/sleep apnea. I toed the line for the whole second half of my enlistment after deployment, I still had a 274 1st class pft, but I was also only sleeping 2-3 hours a night. I was also having periods of apnea where when I was asleep I would stop breathing. After I got out and got serious treatment, got myself a CPAP, fixed my sleep schedule, and my weight began dropping immediately. Also being under large amounts of stress causes your body to maintain a good amount of Cortisol, which really messes with the body's ability to regulate itself.

The secret to weight loss isn't a secret, it's calories in vs calories out, but other factors can affect how many calories your body naturally burns. Overweight soldiers should see an on-base dietician to get their base metabolic rate measured so they know exactly how many calories their bodies burn at rest per day. If there isn't one locally on base, maybe you can do your soldier a solid and try to advocate for them to get it done and covered as it affects their health and readiness. Every avenue should be explored before destroying a soldier's career.

Services members like to pretend they are fitness guru's but many times they fail to look into the science behind *why* what works for them may not be working for someone else.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2020 9:40 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 09:40:41 -0400

Going keto is the flavor of the month for weight loss. It is near impossible to do in field environments, expensive for the military to afford, and just isn't what is necessary. Weight loss is simple, as SFC Private RallyPoint Member pointed out - Calories in < Calories burned - no matter what you eat. You could do nothing but big macs and it works.
No they don't teach keto diet anywhere because it isn't practical, and like was mentioned, many people relapse over it.
You may like the keto diet and it may work for some people. but is not sustainable in the military.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2020 12:53 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 12:53:24 -0400

My assessment is that the height/weight standards were drawn up under the assumption that EVERY soldier was an infantryman. It’s a situation where the Army would be better off with LESS conformity- let soldiers weigh whatever as long as they get the job done.

Response by SSG Darrell Peters made Jun 4 at 2020 6:43 PM

SSG Darrell Peters — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 18:43:49 -0400

I had a soldier who could not lose weight. He was on and exercise plan, he saw a nutritionist. Kept his logbooks. The Command thought he was cheating and was ready to kick him out. He went for his physical and it was determined he had a medical condition that was preventing him from losing weight. Insulin Resistant Diabetes. The command gave this man so much grief because they perceived him to be undisciplined. Developing diabetes while already serving in the military, however, is not automatic grounds for separation (retirement) from the military. Once on the proper medical treatment, he eventually retired.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jun 4 at 2020 7:06 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 19:06:35 -0400

Two books by Dr Jason Fung, The Obesity Code and The Diabetes Code, explain how and why people get fat and develop type 2 diabetes. He also tells how to retrain yourself to lose weight and decrease diabetes medication. It works! No new drugs, dietary supplements, or magic pills. Just proper use of fasting. Get your overweight troops to read The Obesity Code.

Response by PFC Jonathon Luken made Jun 4 at 2020 8:36 PM

PFC Jonathon Luken — Thu, 04 Jun 2020 20:36:08 -0400

So one point on this i want to make its not just calorie in cal out its also resting vs no resting burning. If you dont have high muscle mass then there is nothign to burn the calories.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2020 10:29 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2020 22:29:53 -0400

I can speak for basic training. Although trainees lose a lot of weight at basic training depending on how hard they work with PT and eating good. What you are talking about isn’t really taught. We taught more the “eat the green food” at the defac which was less in fat as the “red food”. It was always funny to me to see a breakfast pizza as green or things with high carbs as green. But when I asked the Defac how that specific food was categorized green. I was told that “experts” come to their facility and tell them which foods are which colors based on their level. Still never really understood it sometimes when some foods I didn’t eat cause of carbs were green. But as said before what you specifically talked about being taught isn’t a nutrition brief of eat more green than red is usually the basis of it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2020 5:11 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Jun 2020 17:11:27 -0400

What you're referring to is know as the ketogenics diet, or "Keto," which is currently the fastest growing, in a long list of fad diets in the Western world. Anybody remember Adkins in the '90s? While it all sounds good and well thought out, it has been debunked by numerous doctors, physiologists, and nutritionists as unhealthy, and unsustainable for any period longer than roughly 90 days, with some variance between individuals. But the overall truth is this: it doesnt work, and isnt healthy. If the only goal is weight loss, then you're failing your soldiers as a leader. The goal should always be to keep them healthy, in shape, constantly getting better, faster, stronger and establishing healthier lifestyles. Ketogenics not only fails to accomplish most of these, but it also forces your body to turn on itself and begin eating itself as a longer and more sustainable source of nutrients. Where this presents problems, outside of the obvious, is that it also increases risks for things like rhabdomyolysis and malnutrition.

Response by SPC Ron Salsbury made Aug 2 at 2020 8:42 AM

SPC Ron Salsbury — Sun, 02 Aug 2020 08:42:20 -0400

All these statements are great arguments for a skinny soldier, but many of us had genetics that played a large role as well. When I was in the service, I was around 230, and yes fat by many standards; what I would say is get rid of the fat boy program altogether, settling on a Troop that is fit, strong, and able to perform their duties to the physical stands set forth by the DOD. It used to shock the hell out of people to see a guy my size outrun their skinny butts, out performing physically on the PT test, and still be a big boy, not fat but a larger frame.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Aug 3 at 2020 2:15 AM

SPC Steven Nihipali — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 02:15:18 -0400

my answer would this... there are health issues EVERYONE has to endure but does anyone honestly know how much work goes into eating from the DFAC? Basic Training meals are seriously made by cooks who don't know much about nutrition, but them who make MRE's do. 3k calories for the field is a shit ton! But how many calories are you burning in the field anyway? not many... if you're infantry, sure, you'll only need to eat maybe half. Just saying, we all sham behind the shield n sleep all we can. Morning PT isn't enough, I know I was one of them overweight soldiers who felt horrible putting on my uniform because I knew I wasn't representing the Army or my unit right

Response by PO1 RIchard Petty made Jun 5 at 2021 4:40 PM

PO1 RIchard Petty — Sat, 05 Jun 2021 16:40:14 -0400

Coming from a Sailor I had weight gain up and down and that was dependent on our work up cycle for deployment. I remember leaving for cruise and I weighed myself and I was 260 lbs came back 10 months later I was at 180 lbs dropped 80 lbs of weight. But overtime that hurts the body and you have to change how you eat and workout and like someone said calories in and calories out. Cut back on fast food, pizza's, chain restaurants, etc. look at what you are eating and change that. The KETO and PALEO diets only work for, so long before you go back to your normal self and put some weight back on. You don't have to go vegan or a diet that restricts what you eat. Eat what you in moderation and enjoy if you think you have probably get your physician and have them run all the blood work to see if anything is causing problems.

Response by SPC James Anderson made Jun 5 at 2021 5:03 PM

SPC James Anderson — Sat, 05 Jun 2021 17:03:45 -0400

Why is this a problem to begin with? Are we talking about just over weight, or failing PT. The Army still uses the BMI index which is probably the most horrible and inaccurate test of a person's overall health right along with the neck/waist tape test. Myself and several other large soldiers were basically 2nd class citizens because we didnt fit the mold. Some of the hardest workers I knew were chaptered out because of these policies. Guys that were sick and tired of working out twice a day and generally treated like shit just gave up. End of my 9th grade year i was 6' 3" 250lbs, I was about 225-230 while active about 25lbs over weight according to the Army, today at 45 im around 255, great blood pressure, great cholesterol, resting heart rate in the low 60's. Would still be considered a shit bag fat body in the Army. We never had any dietary advice and just had to do PT twice a day, which made me bigger yet. I could barely pass my 2 mile run but I could work anyone into the ground. So many people I know that were amazing soldiers quit within their first enlistment because of policies from overweight programs. Maybe just up the requirements to get into the Military, eliminate this problem at the start, then we can quit wasting so much time worry about someone "overweight".

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jun 6 at 2022 4:25 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Mon, 06 Jun 2022 16:25:12 -0400

The undisciplined were weeded out early, but you do need to take personal responsibility too. Company PT isn’t enough, you need to run and work out in your own , it’s part of your job, nothing more or less. I basically did a PFT 5-6 days a week in Angelico, it wasn't required obviously, but it was for me. I was never a great runner, as it was I a could do a sub 20 minutes, come to find out I have a mitral valve prolapse, so stamina was always an issue, just didn’t know it. In middle school it was a diagnosed as a heart murmur, but stamina even at 18 was always a minor issue, the Marines didn’t care too much. It all works out.